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Multi Tabling, Small Ball And Other Questions


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#1 TheTiburon

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Posted 22 August 2010 - 09:03 AM

**Warning: This may be a little long winded, but i'm looking for responders to take this thread serious since i'm pretty serious about this transition**About 3 years ago I was a very profitable online player but I would play a very TAG/home run hitter approach. I took some time off from the game online, exclusively playing cash games, MTT's and SNG's at casinos. During my times of playing as a semi-professional in a live setting I switched my game to a more small ball approach. About 1 month ago I came back to the game online and realize just how different the environment is now and that I really need to catch my online game up with my live performances. I've started 2 businesses and I don't get a chance to play live much at all and I want to progresss my poker skills.I have a few personal rules in playing online poker:- Ask myself once every 30minutes if 1. I am playing my best poker?2. Am I tired?3. Am I distracted?- I play when my family goes to sleep at night or on my days off with minimal distractions so I can spend time with my wife and son.- I attempt to play with no tv or a movie on that i've seen a million times so I can focus on the game.Since my mind in recent years is used to focusing on 1 game at a time I have taken on the mission to learn to multi-tabling using my new approach. Previously I made a concerted effort to read, categorize and make notes on EVERYONE at my tables. This is extremely hard now that i'm trying to multi-table successfully. I've dropped my buyin requirements so I can minimize the impact to my wallet while figuring the modern online game out as it pertains to my newer approach. This hasn't been without a bunch of challenges that I didn't see coming:1. I'm really struggling to switch gears appropriately from window to window playing different types of games. For example the last two days i've been playing $25 NLH cash and crushing it (up almost $160), but i've been struggling with my SNG results that I will play at the same time. I've noticed I can play 3-4 tables of Cash or 3-4 tables of SNG's and my ROI is minimally impacted, but when I play 2 cash and 2 SNG's I have a difficult time making the mental adjustment between the games. Does anyone else have a trick for doing this or do you just "practice avoidance" (Prahlad) and focus on one at a time?2. I'm wondering if i'm playing at stakes too low for most of my plays to be understood. I can get tricky and trappy with my cash games and play about 30-40% of my hands. This just doesn't seem to work in the $4KO SNG's i've been playing and I attempt to be a little more straight forward and tight only to walk into 2-3 people chasing me down with draws and ATC. I'm bankrolled enough to play 1-2 cash and $10 9 man's or $13KO 9 man's and i've had a successful run doing that in my old style of play, but i'm worried about impacting my wallet too much as i'm trying to adapt my new style into the online game.3. When I do focus on 3-4 SNG's at the same time in this buyin range I wind up running really well, but I don't feel challenged. You can see my results on Sharkscope and EVERY TIME I put an MTT or a Cash game into my multi tabling efforts I go on a mini losing streak only to come back to playing just SNG's. Has anyone else had this problem?4. Is anyone a successful 1-2 game at a time player that made a transition to more games and what specific things do you recommend i do to add more games? That is all for now guys. Sorry for the novel, I just have high ambitions and want to maximize my experience. Thanks in advance...
Patience and Discipline in all you do tempered with Action on your accumulated Wisdom. Finally, let Passion and Energy drive it all into success! - Zach Marcy
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#2 TheTiburon

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Posted 22 August 2010 - 12:41 PM

ANOTHER horrid day playing SNG's. I even moved up to $5 and $50 Cash. I crushed cash for $75 and proceeded to lose about $40 on buyins in SNG's.

View PostTheTiburon, on Sunday, August 22nd, 2010, 1:03 PM, said:

**Warning: This may be a little long winded, but i'm looking for responders to take this thread serious since i'm pretty serious about this transition**About 3 years ago I was a very profitable online player but I would play a very TAG/home run hitter approach. I took some time off from the game online, exclusively playing cash games, MTT's and SNG's at casinos. During my times of playing as a semi-professional in a live setting I switched my game to a more small ball approach. About 1 month ago I came back to the game online and realize just how different the environment is now and that I really need to catch my online game up with my live performances. I've started 2 businesses and I don't get a chance to play live much at all and I want to progresss my poker skills.I have a few personal rules in playing online poker:- Ask myself once every 30minutes if 1. I am playing my best poker?2. Am I tired?3. Am I distracted?- I play when my family goes to sleep at night or on my days off with minimal distractions so I can spend time with my wife and son.- I attempt to play with no tv or a movie on that i've seen a million times so I can focus on the game.Since my mind in recent years is used to focusing on 1 game at a time I have taken on the mission to learn to multi-tabling using my new approach. Previously I made a concerted effort to read, categorize and make notes on EVERYONE at my tables. This is extremely hard now that i'm trying to multi-table successfully. I've dropped my buyin requirements so I can minimize the impact to my wallet while figuring the modern online game out as it pertains to my newer approach. This hasn't been without a bunch of challenges that I didn't see coming:1. I'm really struggling to switch gears appropriately from window to window playing different types of games. For example the last two days i've been playing $25 NLH cash and crushing it (up almost $160), but i've been struggling with my SNG results that I will play at the same time. I've noticed I can play 3-4 tables of Cash or 3-4 tables of SNG's and my ROI is minimally impacted, but when I play 2 cash and 2 SNG's I have a difficult time making the mental adjustment between the games. Does anyone else have a trick for doing this or do you just "practice avoidance" (Prahlad) and focus on one at a time?2. I'm wondering if i'm playing at stakes too low for most of my plays to be understood. I can get tricky and trappy with my cash games and play about 30-40% of my hands. This just doesn't seem to work in the $4KO SNG's i've been playing and I attempt to be a little more straight forward and tight only to walk into 2-3 people chasing me down with draws and ATC. I'm bankrolled enough to play 1-2 cash and $10 9 man's or $13KO 9 man's and i've had a successful run doing that in my old style of play, but i'm worried about impacting my wallet too much as i'm trying to adapt my new style into the online game.3. When I do focus on 3-4 SNG's at the same time in this buyin range I wind up running really well, but I don't feel challenged. You can see my results on Sharkscope and EVERY TIME I put an MTT or a Cash game into my multi tabling efforts I go on a mini losing streak only to come back to playing just SNG's. Has anyone else had this problem?4. Is anyone a successful 1-2 game at a time player that made a transition to more games and what specific things do you recommend i do to add more games? That is all for now guys. Sorry for the novel, I just have high ambitions and want to maximize my experience. Thanks in advance...

Patience and Discipline in all you do tempered with Action on your accumulated Wisdom. Finally, let Passion and Energy drive it all into success! - Zach Marcy
http://www.zachmarcy.com

#3 Eba12

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Posted 22 August 2010 - 01:07 PM

I wouldnt multi table 2 different formats since you have to really pay attention and constantly keep in mind what kinda table is what.I played a few $4KO's today and they seemed to be absurdly tight.Ill type more later @ my moms atm and she wants to read her email ;)Keep in mind why you are playing poker. To build a big BR? Have fun? Improve your game?

#4 TheTiburon

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Posted 22 August 2010 - 03:31 PM

I want all three. The game has been frustrating for the last 3 days and I believe it's due to the mixing of games.

View PostEba12, on Sunday, August 22nd, 2010, 5:07 PM, said:

I wouldnt multi table 2 different formats since you have to really pay attention and constantly keep in mind what kinda table is what.I played a few $4KO's today and they seemed to be absurdly tight.Ill type more later @ my moms atm and she wants to read her email ;)Keep in mind why you are playing poker. To build a big BR? Have fun? Improve your game?

Patience and Discipline in all you do tempered with Action on your accumulated Wisdom. Finally, let Passion and Energy drive it all into success! - Zach Marcy
http://www.zachmarcy.com

#5 rrumsey

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Posted 22 August 2010 - 08:59 PM

i mean it doesnt bother me. i have 4 tabled 7 games before. you get used to it. your game should be your game. your thinking should be your thinking. dont over think small buyin stuff. just keep it simple and keep yourself from having sh8tty spots where you are stuck or left yourself no good option and you should find multitabling isnt that bad. just dont make things hard on yourself.
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#6 Eba12

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Posted 23 August 2010 - 02:25 AM

1. Erm yeah well practice makes perfect aye so keep trying and start off with 1 SNG and 1 CG and then slowly build up. Maybe tile the SNG to the left and the CG to the right or use multiple monitors. I would guess u always loose a bit in ROI since u cant pay as much attention to everyone at your table and possibly miss out on some betting patterns.2. I was thinking about this last night in bed. You arent the only person multitabling theres a bunch of ppl who run 4+ tables maybe even more then 10 so if you have that many tables up and you start using ur tricky plays, people might not even notice it. And yeah people tend to shove flush draws with me aswell =( Dont really have a tip to solve this. Besides playing higher stakes maybe and moving down if it bites u in the ass.3. I do not play SNG at all atm and especially not at your buyins. So no idea.4. Well I normally play 2-3 but had to 5 table for 2 days to clear my $240 bonus. In addition to the bonus I made $140. I played very ABC straight forward poker.

#7 TheTiburon

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Posted 23 August 2010 - 04:37 AM

I had a crap day in SNG's yesterday dropping my recent + ROI to - in MTT's and SNG's. My cash game ROI was around 37% at the $25 and +12% at the $50 level. Eba, to your suggestion I did line my cash games on the right side and my MTT's/SNG's on the left. I managed to run pretty deep in a couple of MTSNG's and improve some of my results late after doing this.I did move up in stakes and I have seen a significant impact on the sense of play where I can semi bluff and bluff and have it work. I did get a few cooler/donked in the last few SNG's I played. I reraised and shoved preflop with Aces and had this wild idiot at my table the entire 90man call me down with 55 and hit presto.I've noticed in the low stakes cash games and low/micro stakes online that value betting doesn't work like it does live. It's considered weak. Most of the time a 1/2 pot bet gets like 3 callers and hardly thins out the field. Pot control is a lot harder and that is something I need to adjust too. I'm going to play the slightly bumped up stakes and see how i fair. I'm open for any suggestions on how i'm doing. When it comes to playing online with this style and approach i'm a complete neophyte!
Patience and Discipline in all you do tempered with Action on your accumulated Wisdom. Finally, let Passion and Energy drive it all into success! - Zach Marcy
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#8 TheTiburon

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Posted 23 August 2010 - 06:54 AM

I just figured out a major issue in my multi tabling. I'm not playing my optimal poker due to playing emotionally. I just had someone run down my top two pair on a beautiful trap i laid for him. I managed to get this guy to make a huge mistake and call an all in with just top pair when I hit top two. He managed to hit runner runner flush. I then caught myself tilting off the next hand I played on another table.Now, in the KO SNG's this happens a lot due to people making wild plays with trash trying to head hunt. When I single table these tournies it's a lot easier to keep cool. I at least get a moment to compose myself til I have to play the next hand. In these cases I got a little screwy and made plays across the other tables that led to a lot of chip spew. The other issue I noticed happening was I was not getting any fold equity from people in the bounties either. This means I had to trap them with monsters and outplay them. I am extremely good at this when I can focus on it, but i'm not that good at it when attempting to make reads and hands across multiple tables. A lot of times I would realize a donkey was a donkey after losing a few pots to them. Thanks for the help so far guys. I really think i've started back in the right direction.
Patience and Discipline in all you do tempered with Action on your accumulated Wisdom. Finally, let Passion and Energy drive it all into success! - Zach Marcy
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#9 Eba12

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Posted 23 August 2010 - 07:23 AM

What kinda KO buyins are you playing atm? When I get back from my holiday ill probably grind the 1.40s to build some bankroll and see what ill do next.

#10 TheTiburon

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Posted 23 August 2010 - 07:41 AM

I was playin the 4buxers. I will single table those or play one of those while grinding $5 and $10 SNG's. This is me moving up from the $4 to the $5.50 SNG's:GameID Date (EDT) Type EntryFee Position Profit 303996087 23-Aug-10 11:34 NL Holdem $5 1/9 $17 303994176 23-Aug-10 11:18 NL Holdem $5 2/9 $8 303963431 23-Aug-10 09:08 NL Holdem $5 1/9 $17 303963450 23-Aug-10 09:08 NL Holdem $5 3/9 $3.50 I'm back in the +ROI since coming back to poker too. I think my problem was trying to change too much at once and not handling the multiple suck outs well and then tilting off chips.

View PostEba12, on Monday, August 23rd, 2010, 11:23 AM, said:

What kinda KO buyins are you playing atm? When I get back from my holiday ill probably grind the 1.40s to build some bankroll and see what ill do next.

Patience and Discipline in all you do tempered with Action on your accumulated Wisdom. Finally, let Passion and Energy drive it all into success! - Zach Marcy
http://www.zachmarcy.com

#11 TheTiburon

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Posted 23 August 2010 - 09:54 AM

Recent Results Show Last 250 Results (1 Search) GameID Date (EDT) Type EntryFee Position Profit 304033595 23-Aug-10 13:35 NL Holdem $5 1/9 $17 304017062 23-Aug-10 13:00 NL Holdem $5 1/9 $17 304017012 23-Aug-10 12:36 NL Holdem $5 3/9 $3.50 303999497 23-Aug-10 11:58 NL Holdem $5 5/9 -$5.50 303996042 23-Aug-10 11:44 NL Holdem $5 8/9 -$5.50 303996087 23-Aug-10 11:34 NL Holdem $5 1/9 $17 303994176 23-Aug-10 11:18 NL Holdem $5 2/9 $8 303963431 23-Aug-10 09:08 NL Holdem $5 1/9 $17 303963450 23-Aug-10 09:08 NL Holdem $5 3/9 $3.50 I did all of this while working on a marketing plan for my gym. $72 over a 4 hour session, LOL! I charge $60-75 bucks an hour for personal training and I make passive income off of my trainers that train underneath me and my bootcamps yet i'm excited over making $18 an hour playing poker... Aight guys, i am going to log about 2500 hands in this method before i re-evaluate if i'm going to move up. Thanks for the feedback and if you guys have any other suggestions based on what i wrote i would appreciate it. Right now here are my rules:1. stick with the $5/$10 SNG range or add in 1 $4 KO SNG while playing the others.2. 3-4 multi-table games at a time, no more3. Stick with one type of game at a time, eg SNG, MTSNG/MTT or Cash4. Approach multiple MTT's/MTSNG's with more discipline and position dominant play5. Put a stop loss after 4 sng's/4 mtt's without cashing or losing 3 buyins in cash. I must wait at least 5 hours to resume playing again.6. I won't move up passed the $5 SNG, $11 MTT, $25 Cash unless I have $1000+ in my account online.
Patience and Discipline in all you do tempered with Action on your accumulated Wisdom. Finally, let Passion and Energy drive it all into success! - Zach Marcy
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