Jump to content


Sng Advice


  • Please log in to reply
22 replies to this topic

#1 dead money

dead money

    Poker Forum Groupie

  • Members
  • 933 posts
  • Location:The dark side of the moon
  • Interests:poker, football, golf, hockey, movies, music

Posted 12 August 2010 - 12:03 PM

I would really appreciate the help of all the various sng regulars. I recently had to take all my money off both Pstars and Tilt to pay some unforseen bills. I ran a stake for a guy and know have about $160 to work with. I played the $3 KOs on tilt and absolutely hate them. I also see no future in moving up in those as they fill too slow. I can 25 table on stars and 16 table on tilt easily. Ive played all the kinds of sngs and find that I am most profitable in the 9 mans and the 180 mans. I would prefer to grind out the 9 mans as I have kids and finding time to play limits me to about 2 hours a night and maybe 4 hours on the weekends without neglecting my wife too much. I want to make a decent amount of money to supplement my income to pay for vacations, birthdays, christmas, day trips, etc. Basically Im asking your thoughts on what games would be best to play and have the best chance to move up. Im asking for your experience on the game play at levels and if its feasable to move up in a decent time frame. I used to grind the $6.50s and the $16s a lot and made decent money. I used to kill the $2.20 180 mans, but I dont have a decent sample at any of the higher limits to know how good I would be. Also, what kind of attainable ROI drop can you expect at each level. I dont want exact answers obviously, I just want to see if its even worth my time to try. And if anybody else has any ideas on other games that I should try please let me know.I appreciate you reading and responding. I hope my thoughts arent too jumbled. Thanks.
"And behind Daniel we see Johnny Chan. He is showing off his Chubby Chinese Sweater Collection."

Gabe Kaplan

#2 rrumsey

rrumsey

    Poker Forum Veteran

  • Members
  • 1,881 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Atlanta, Georgia
  • Interests:I like to think about and play poker. Enough said. I read a lot of forums and am now trying to write in them.
  • Favorite Poker Game:O8, PLO, LHE, NLHE

Posted 12 August 2010 - 01:12 PM

$2 180 mans turbos on stars fill up very fast, and the $4 180's are better, they are slooowww levels, which i love. that or do the 27 mans for $2.
Escalante in the small stakes grinder podcast in respect to my FPS " Bet your damn hands!!!" hahaha

Download Spartan's podcast, Small Stakes Grinder! the link for iTunes is: (http://itunes.apple....der/id354114893)
Check out updates to the podcast in the "Members Blog" section of the forum (of pokerroad)...or else. Check it out guys it is a great podcast. Next Episode (Topic: Interview with Barry Greenstein Part 2): 04/19/10

#3 dead money

dead money

    Poker Forum Groupie

  • Members
  • 933 posts
  • Location:The dark side of the moon
  • Interests:poker, football, golf, hockey, movies, music

Posted 12 August 2010 - 01:19 PM

View Postrrumsey, on Thursday, August 12th, 2010, 2:12 PM, said:

$2 180 mans turbos on stars fill up very fast, and the $4 180's are better, they are slooowww levels, which i love. that or do the 27 mans for $2.
I would love to do the $4s but they take way too long to play. The $3 KOs took too long for me at about 2.5 hours. Im really on a strict 2 hour time limit unless I want to be dead tired for work and fall asleep behind the wheel and kill all oncoming traffic. Thats why I figure the 9 man turbos would be better. I like em but I heard that they have become very shark heavy lately and arent worth it. So it would be a waste to work my way up to the $55s or higher and struggle to keep a 3% ROI. That doesnt sound like fun. But if you guys think different please let me know.
"And behind Daniel we see Johnny Chan. He is showing off his Chubby Chinese Sweater Collection."

Gabe Kaplan

#4 rrumsey

rrumsey

    Poker Forum Veteran

  • Members
  • 1,881 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Atlanta, Georgia
  • Interests:I like to think about and play poker. Enough said. I read a lot of forums and am now trying to write in them.
  • Favorite Poker Game:O8, PLO, LHE, NLHE

Posted 12 August 2010 - 01:58 PM

variance is super wicked in the STT from what i understand. i mean i guess if you are kinda looking for bang for your buck hour wise i would so this or grind 5nl rush 6 max and 9 max, they limit you to 4 entries into the same rush game but you can play full ring too to get more tables.8 tabling rush mean in 2 hours you can probably get in something like 4K of hands in a session. thats pretty nice. i wouldnt play rush longer then 2 hours, thats just a lot.the more i think about this, 4k hands a night, lets say 1BB pre 100 hands average profit ( which is extremely small and way on the low side of how you can probably beat these things), $40 profit on the low side a night will rebuild a BR nicely. do that for a few weeks you will have a roll to do whatever you want
Escalante in the small stakes grinder podcast in respect to my FPS " Bet your damn hands!!!" hahaha

Download Spartan's podcast, Small Stakes Grinder! the link for iTunes is: (http://itunes.apple....der/id354114893)
Check out updates to the podcast in the "Members Blog" section of the forum (of pokerroad)...or else. Check it out guys it is a great podcast. Next Episode (Topic: Interview with Barry Greenstein Part 2): 04/19/10

#5 dead money

dead money

    Poker Forum Groupie

  • Members
  • 933 posts
  • Location:The dark side of the moon
  • Interests:poker, football, golf, hockey, movies, music

Posted 12 August 2010 - 02:35 PM

View Postrrumsey, on Thursday, August 12th, 2010, 2:58 PM, said:

variance is super wicked in the STT from what i understand. i mean i guess if you are kinda looking for bang for your buck hour wise i would so this or grind 5nl rush 6 max and 9 max, they limit you to 4 entries into the same rush game but you can play full ring too to get more tables.8 tabling rush mean in 2 hours you can probably get in something like 4K of hands in a session. thats pretty nice. i wouldnt play rush longer then 2 hours, thats just a lot.the more i think about this, 4k hands a night, lets say 1BB pre 100 hands average profit ( which is extremely small and way on the low side of how you can probably beat these things), $40 profit on the low side a night will rebuild a BR nicely. do that for a few weeks you will have a roll to do whatever you want
Hmmm. I do like rush but I dont know if I can 8 table it. I was having troule 4 tabling when I tried it. But that is a possibility. Thanks.
"And behind Daniel we see Johnny Chan. He is showing off his Chubby Chinese Sweater Collection."

Gabe Kaplan

#6 rrumsey

rrumsey

    Poker Forum Veteran

  • Members
  • 1,881 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Atlanta, Georgia
  • Interests:I like to think about and play poker. Enough said. I read a lot of forums and am now trying to write in them.
  • Favorite Poker Game:O8, PLO, LHE, NLHE

Posted 12 August 2010 - 06:10 PM

View Postdead money, on Thursday, August 12th, 2010, 3:35 PM, said:

Hmmm. I do like rush but I dont know if I can 8 table it. I was having troule 4 tabling when I tried it. But that is a possibility. Thanks.
build up to then. i mean bang for the buck time wish it is great. i used to 4 table 10plo rush 6max whenever i only had like 30 minutes. super soft game if you like plo. got a crap ton of hands in, and people go broke easier in rush plo then regular imo.
Escalante in the small stakes grinder podcast in respect to my FPS " Bet your damn hands!!!" hahaha

Download Spartan's podcast, Small Stakes Grinder! the link for iTunes is: (http://itunes.apple....der/id354114893)
Check out updates to the podcast in the "Members Blog" section of the forum (of pokerroad)...or else. Check it out guys it is a great podcast. Next Episode (Topic: Interview with Barry Greenstein Part 2): 04/19/10

#7 CorvairShaggy

CorvairShaggy

    Poker Forum Groupie

  • Members
  • 794 posts

Posted 12 August 2010 - 07:42 PM

What about the DONs??? I am still a learning player, but I have posted a decent profit in the past on these, and just switched from cash games back to tourneys again. I can 3-4 table $10 ones and this week I am getting about 80% win ratio this week. Maybe I am on the good side of variance?? I tried a $20 one tonight and it was a little less forgiving on mistakes, but I still survived it. I am like you and can only get a few hours in per night, and if I am lucky can get a solid 4 hour session in on Sunday nights. Maybe someone that plays these regularly can comment on the variance of these, but just a thought??
- - - - "It annoys me when players who play the tour for three years and don't do anything chalk it up to "variance." Yeah, has nothing to do with the fact that you suck... you are just unlucky." - - - - - Daniel Negreanu 1-21-2011 Blog

#8 babylondonks

babylondonks

    I have had a perfectly wonderful evening

  • Members
  • 4,104 posts
  • Location:but this wasn't it.

Posted 12 August 2010 - 11:23 PM

I think a very very very good $2 180 player could get an ROI of up to like 50% while the very best at the $12 level are probably no more than 40% long term

#9 potatoman

potatoman

    Poker Forum Groupie

  • Members
  • 954 posts

Posted 13 August 2010 - 07:40 AM

If it's just about money, pick a format that's profitable for you and stick to it. Play 9-man sngs, play rush poker, play MTTs, but avoid switching between formats, unless you really need a break from the grind.I've spend some time working on my cash game this year. I'm much improved, but I'm still a more profitable sng player. Stick with what you're most profitable playing. You don't have a lot of time, so don't waste it. Don't move up just because you have the bankroll to do so. Move up because you're confident you can continue to crush the game at that level.Track your results and be honest with yourself.Set realistic goals. You have a job and a family. You can be a winning poker player, but you may never have the time to commit to becoming a top notch player.$160 is not a large bankroll. Unless you don't mind redepositing, you're going to have to start playing at the microstakes. I'm a bankroll nit, so if I was you, I would grind $2.25 9 man sngs. Not much variance, and little chance of going broke. The variance in sngs comes from playing against other decent sng players, especially in bubble situations. For me this usually happens around the $22 level.$2.25 - $160$3.40 - $221$5.50 - $357.50$11 - $715$16 - $1040$22 - $1430If you stick with those bankroll guidelines above, you will almost never go broke, but it will be a grind.Regarding DoN - I can't think of a more boring way to grind out a profit, but, if they are your most profitable game, I would stick with them. Up to $10, an ROI of 15-20 should be achievable. But perhaps the game has gotten tougher. I'll have a better idea once I get my full bankroll back online.

#10 lurbz

lurbz

    how many george brett

  • Members
  • 4,284 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:USA
  • Favorite Poker Game:Reichmode

Posted 13 August 2010 - 10:52 AM

$5.20 DONs till you hit $400, then $10.40s. Especially if you can mass table them optimally.130 DONs per day @ a decent win rate + FPP bonuses = 35k+ a year.Never try becoming a $20.80 reg. I tried for a while and had games where it was literally the same 10 regs across 12 tables.
BBsRJReich on Stars, DaemonReich on FTP, PM me for SNG coaching!

Moderator34 [Moderator]: Hello Everyone, please give me a moment or two to review the chat log.
BBsRJReich: mod34!
BBsRJReich: <3<3<3
BBsRJReich: youre my favorite mod

PuckSniper23 [observer]: hi 34 <3
tbrick412 [observer]: ko8e34?
tbrick412 [observer]: or mod34?[/color]
Moderator34 [Moderator]: Thank you, your my favorite player :D

[23:57] lurbz28: just depends on what kinda girl you want
[23:57] Tbrick286: one with a pulse

#11 dead money

dead money

    Poker Forum Groupie

  • Members
  • 933 posts
  • Location:The dark side of the moon
  • Interests:poker, football, golf, hockey, movies, music

Posted 14 August 2010 - 07:55 AM

Thanks for the thoughts guys. Im not a very good cash player. My preflop play is much better than my flop play. I can beat the 1/2 nl games in AC but that is like saying Im the tallest midget at the fair. I have trouble winning at online any higher than the 50nl tables. I loathe the DONs. They are boring as all hell. I know I wouldnt be able to handle it. I think Im just gonna try and grind out the sngs and hope for the best. I may give the rush cash games a go and see what my results are after 10k hands or so. If it looks promising, I might do that. As an aside, does anybody know any good cash game strategy books out there? I know that Harrington's books are highly praised. I was just seeing if there was anything else that is good for postflop play. Thanks.
"And behind Daniel we see Johnny Chan. He is showing off his Chubby Chinese Sweater Collection."

Gabe Kaplan

#12 rrumsey

rrumsey

    Poker Forum Veteran

  • Members
  • 1,881 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Atlanta, Georgia
  • Interests:I like to think about and play poker. Enough said. I read a lot of forums and am now trying to write in them.
  • Favorite Poker Game:O8, PLO, LHE, NLHE

Posted 14 August 2010 - 03:45 PM

View Postdead money, on Saturday, August 14th, 2010, 8:55 AM, said:

As an aside, does anybody know any good cash game strategy books out there? I know that Harrington's books are highly praised. I was just seeing if there was anything else that is good for postflop play. Thanks.
i would save your money and just read strat posts on 2+2, here, pokerroad, deucescracked, cardrunners, bluefirepoker, ect forums. and sign up for a coaching site membership. HOH is pretty simple. you will get better info from these places imo.
Escalante in the small stakes grinder podcast in respect to my FPS " Bet your damn hands!!!" hahaha

Download Spartan's podcast, Small Stakes Grinder! the link for iTunes is: (http://itunes.apple....der/id354114893)
Check out updates to the podcast in the "Members Blog" section of the forum (of pokerroad)...or else. Check it out guys it is a great podcast. Next Episode (Topic: Interview with Barry Greenstein Part 2): 04/19/10

#13 lurbz

lurbz

    how many george brett

  • Members
  • 4,284 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:USA
  • Favorite Poker Game:Reichmode

Posted 14 August 2010 - 06:17 PM

View Postdead money, on Saturday, August 14th, 2010, 8:55 AM, said:

Thanks for the thoughts guys. Im not a very good cash player. My preflop play is much better than my flop play. I can beat the 1/2 nl games in AC but that is like saying Im the tallest midget at the fair. I have trouble winning at online any higher than the 50nl tables. I loathe the DONs. They are boring as all hell. I know I wouldnt be able to handle it. I think Im just gonna try and grind out the sngs and hope for the best. I may give the rush cash games a go and see what my results are after 10k hands or so. If it looks promising, I might do that. As an aside, does anybody know any good cash game strategy books out there? I know that Harrington's books are highly praised. I was just seeing if there was anything else that is good for postflop play. Thanks.
Grind the $5.20s for a while and get the BR stable, honestly.Anyway, best book on poker I've found is Mathematics of Poker (Bill Chen)
BBsRJReich on Stars, DaemonReich on FTP, PM me for SNG coaching!

Moderator34 [Moderator]: Hello Everyone, please give me a moment or two to review the chat log.
BBsRJReich: mod34!
BBsRJReich: <3<3<3
BBsRJReich: youre my favorite mod

PuckSniper23 [observer]: hi 34 <3
tbrick412 [observer]: ko8e34?
tbrick412 [observer]: or mod34?[/color]
Moderator34 [Moderator]: Thank you, your my favorite player :D

[23:57] lurbz28: just depends on what kinda girl you want
[23:57] Tbrick286: one with a pulse

#14 dead money

dead money

    Poker Forum Groupie

  • Members
  • 933 posts
  • Location:The dark side of the moon
  • Interests:poker, football, golf, hockey, movies, music

Posted 15 August 2010 - 04:00 AM

View Postlurbz, on Saturday, August 14th, 2010, 7:17 PM, said:

Grind the $5.20s for a while and get the BR stable, honestly.Anyway, best book on poker I've found is Mathematics of Poker (Bill Chen)
What kind of bankroll would you recommend when moving up in these? Can you get away with 20 buyins or should it be closer to the same as regular 9 mans?
"And behind Daniel we see Johnny Chan. He is showing off his Chubby Chinese Sweater Collection."

Gabe Kaplan

#15 tbrick412

tbrick412

    cellar dweller

  • Members
  • 2,306 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Iowa
  • Interests:Poker, video games, attending college, drinking.
  • Favorite Poker Game:NL Hold 'Em SNG's/MTT's

Posted 15 August 2010 - 08:23 PM

9 man turbos are very shark infested, just play the non turbos continuously for 2 hours.
tbrick412(cedar falls) on stars/ftp
tbrick286 on AIM

#16 lurbz

lurbz

    how many george brett

  • Members
  • 4,284 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:USA
  • Favorite Poker Game:Reichmode

Posted 15 August 2010 - 08:59 PM

View Postdead money, on Sunday, August 15th, 2010, 5:00 AM, said:

What kind of bankroll would you recommend when moving up in these? Can you get away with 20 buyins or should it be closer to the same as regular 9 mans?
prob do 30 to be safe, drop back down @ 15
BBsRJReich on Stars, DaemonReich on FTP, PM me for SNG coaching!

Moderator34 [Moderator]: Hello Everyone, please give me a moment or two to review the chat log.
BBsRJReich: mod34!
BBsRJReich: <3<3<3
BBsRJReich: youre my favorite mod

PuckSniper23 [observer]: hi 34 <3
tbrick412 [observer]: ko8e34?
tbrick412 [observer]: or mod34?[/color]
Moderator34 [Moderator]: Thank you, your my favorite player :D

[23:57] lurbz28: just depends on what kinda girl you want
[23:57] Tbrick286: one with a pulse

#17 dead money

dead money

    Poker Forum Groupie

  • Members
  • 933 posts
  • Location:The dark side of the moon
  • Interests:poker, football, golf, hockey, movies, music

Posted 16 August 2010 - 03:21 PM

I really appreciate the replies guys. Thanks. How far up the ladder do you have to go where the 9 man turbos get too sharky for a decent player? Im pretty sure I have narrowed it down to the 9 mans, the rush cash or the DONs. Would it be a bad idea to mix it up and play all of them? Play each of them 1 week at a time and mix it up so I dont get super bored. Im not sure its a good idea, but it might help me cope with the monotony.
"And behind Daniel we see Johnny Chan. He is showing off his Chubby Chinese Sweater Collection."

Gabe Kaplan

#18 lurbz

lurbz

    how many george brett

  • Members
  • 4,284 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:USA
  • Favorite Poker Game:Reichmode

Posted 17 August 2010 - 06:37 PM

View Postdead money, on Monday, August 16th, 2010, 4:21 PM, said:

I really appreciate the replies guys. Thanks. How far up the ladder do you have to go where the 9 man turbos get too sharky for a decent player? Im pretty sure I have narrowed it down to the 9 mans, the rush cash or the DONs. Would it be a bad idea to mix it up and play all of them? Play each of them 1 week at a time and mix it up so I dont get super bored. Im not sure its a good idea, but it might help me cope with the monotony.
6.50 on PSdunno FTP.blame battle of the planets a lot of regs will bump down to put up a high orbit block score and get the BOP bonus
BBsRJReich on Stars, DaemonReich on FTP, PM me for SNG coaching!

Moderator34 [Moderator]: Hello Everyone, please give me a moment or two to review the chat log.
BBsRJReich: mod34!
BBsRJReich: <3<3<3
BBsRJReich: youre my favorite mod

PuckSniper23 [observer]: hi 34 <3
tbrick412 [observer]: ko8e34?
tbrick412 [observer]: or mod34?[/color]
Moderator34 [Moderator]: Thank you, your my favorite player :D

[23:57] lurbz28: just depends on what kinda girl you want
[23:57] Tbrick286: one with a pulse

#19 TheTiburon

TheTiburon

    Poker Forum Newbie

  • Members
  • 38 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Miami, FL
  • Favorite Poker Game:NLH

Posted 17 August 2010 - 08:20 PM

Dead,I was in the exact same situation back in 2007 when I went through a divorce and needed ALL of my money. When I finally came back I went from having a bankroll to being an over qualified player in low stakes. Here are my observations when I came back:1. DON's are very easy to cruise into the money, but require next to no skill, but a ton of patience. I would multi table these if you are looking for profit and not an advance in your poker career.2. I found the $10 SNG's to be easier to beat than the $5 and under due to more predictable TAG play, but these don't fall in your bankroll parameters. Aspire to work up to this level and CRUSH IT!3. I highly recommend the $4 KO 9 Man SNG's (on Stars) because it significantly decreases your variance by accumulating bounties even in games you don't cash in while still playing like a $3 SNG. There is HELLA dead money in the form of 2-3 fishes just waiting to give your their stack within the first 10 minutes of the game. Once you have 1 double up it's very easy to cash in these. Hope this helps! Hit me up if you want more help working through this. I am currently doing something similar, again after using my entire bankroll to start 2 businesses.
Patience and Discipline in all you do tempered with Action on your accumulated Wisdom. Finally, let Passion and Energy drive it all into success! - Zach Marcy
http://www.zachmarcy.com

#20 dead money

dead money

    Poker Forum Groupie

  • Members
  • 933 posts
  • Location:The dark side of the moon
  • Interests:poker, football, golf, hockey, movies, music

Posted 18 August 2010 - 01:01 PM

Thanks guys. You have all been real helpful. Im still not sure what I want to do but I have a lot more info about than I did a week ago. I think the DONs are my best bet if I can put up with them. I dont even know about the 9 man KOs lol. I havent been on stars in awhile. Those sound intriguing. Also, Tiburon. I found the same thing to be true about the sngs. Go above the 10s and the players become more predictable. The players are def. better but I know exactly how they play and dont have to worry about a guy calling my all ins when he has no buisness to do so ruining both our chances at cashing. Its maddening sometimes.
"And behind Daniel we see Johnny Chan. He is showing off his Chubby Chinese Sweater Collection."

Gabe Kaplan




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users