Jump to content


Turn Trips, Now What?


  • Please log in to reply
88 replies to this topic

#41 donk4life

donk4life

    Poker Forum Veteran

  • Members
  • 9,215 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 04 August 2010 - 06:34 AM

View PostMercury69, on Wednesday, August 4th, 2010, 9:16 AM, said:

Not disputing your comment, but you say that like hitting an 8 outer doesn't happen every other hand (which it does, but you're right in saying you should not play into that fear). It's just a risk that you have to take.
Assuming an opponent has nothing but a straight draw here, in the long run allowing him to bluff the turn and river will be more profitable for us, because, you know, we are a significant favorite to a straight draw.

View Postakashenk, on 02 August 2012 - 06:44 AM, said:

I don't mind folding out hands we beat.

#42 TrueAce13

TrueAce13

    FCP Resident Donk

  • Members
  • 4,853 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ohio
  • Favorite Poker Game:PLO NLHE

Posted 04 August 2010 - 10:07 AM

View Postrrumsey, on Monday, August 2nd, 2010, 4:27 PM, said:

Full Tilt Poker $16,500 Guarantee No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t150/t300 Blinds + t25 - 9 players - View hand 835849The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History ConverterSB: t1362 M = 2.02BB: t12657 M = 18.75UTG: t14829 M = 21.97Hero (UTG+1): t9888 M = 14.65UTG+2: t12705 M = 18.82MP1: t7915 M = 11.73MP2: t18297 M = 27.11CO: t24963 M = 36.98BTN: t9851 M = 14.59Pre Flop: (t675) Hero is UTG+1 with A :4h 9 :5c1 fold, Hero raises to t799, 6 folds, BB calls t499Flop: (t1973) 5 :3h 6 :ts 9 :qh (2 players)BB checks, Hero bets t1140, BB calls t1140Turn: (t4253) 9 :club: (2 players)BB bets t1998Final Pot: t4253call and let him bluff river
Alright, so I haven't posted yet on this hand...but am just gonna state what donk has said. Coming from a person who opens more than a lot of the players on this forum, given stack sizes, this is 100% a fine open to try to steal blinds and antes. Flop: perfectly fine imoTurn: Given villains sizing on the turn it really seems that he is betting as a bluff here and trying to get cheap to pick off our cbetting range (all our overs, etc). If he was betting for value, imo...i think he would bet a bit bigger on the turn to set up a bigger bet on the river, to try to play for stacks. Given that a lot of his range is worse hands. We can call, have him be like "wtf" oop and have to bluff the river to try to win the pot. And another thing with just flatting the turn (this is more stated towards nutz), if he does have his mid pair like, 77, 88, 44 or w/e type hands. If the river blanks and he checks for showdown, if he believes we are bluffing this river, he will also call off with worse. By raising and playing for stacks, he needs to have a 9 (which we can still play for stacks on the river) or a boat....oh yeah and the straight. But nothing like mid pairs are gonna play for stacks. He can't have any pair besides maybeeee 10s in his range b/c he is 3betting everything else. So yeah. Flatting this turn is ubbberrrr better and will get a lot more value
Pokerstars: TrueAce13 (Willard)
FT: TrueAce13
My First Poker Blog, please read and help me get better!

#43 rrumsey

rrumsey

    Poker Forum Veteran

  • Members
  • 1,881 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Atlanta, Georgia
  • Interests:I like to think about and play poker. Enough said. I read a lot of forums and am now trying to write in them.
  • Favorite Poker Game:O8, PLO, LHE, NLHE

Posted 04 August 2010 - 02:54 PM

View PostTrueAce13, on Wednesday, August 4th, 2010, 11:07 AM, said:

Alright, so I haven't posted yet on this hand...but am just gonna state what donk has said. Coming from a person who opens more than a lot of the players on this forum, given stack sizes, this is 100% a fine open to try to steal blinds and antes. Flop: perfectly fine imoTurn: Given villains sizing on the turn it really seems that he is betting as a bluff here and trying to get cheap to pick off our cbetting range (all our overs, etc). If he was betting for value, imo...i think he would bet a bit bigger on the turn to set up a bigger bet on the river, to try to play for stacks. Given that a lot of his range is worse hands. We can call, have him be like "wtf" oop and have to bluff the river to try to win the pot. And another thing with just flatting the turn (this is more stated towards nutz), if he does have his mid pair like, 77, 88, 44 or w/e type hands. If the river blanks and he checks for showdown, if he believes we are bluffing this river, he will also call off with worse. By raising and playing for stacks, he needs to have a 9 (which we can still play for stacks on the river) or a boat....oh yeah and the straight. But nothing like mid pairs are gonna play for stacks. He can't have any pair besides maybeeee 10s in his range b/c he is 3betting everything else. So yeah. Flatting this turn is ubbberrrr better and will get a lot more value
sparknotes, flat turn.
Escalante in the small stakes grinder podcast in respect to my FPS " Bet your damn hands!!!" hahaha

Download Spartan's podcast, Small Stakes Grinder! the link for iTunes is: (http://itunes.apple....der/id354114893)
Check out updates to the podcast in the "Members Blog" section of the forum (of pokerroad)...or else. Check it out guys it is a great podcast. Next Episode (Topic: Interview with Barry Greenstein Part 2): 04/19/10

#44 jaxup1985

jaxup1985

    Poker Forum Newbie

  • Members
  • 19 posts

Posted 05 August 2010 - 04:02 AM

View Postdonk4life, on Wednesday, August 4th, 2010, 6:34 AM, said:

Assuming an opponent has nothing but a straight draw here, in the long run allowing him to bluff the turn and river will be more profitable for us, because, you know, we are a significant favorite to a straight draw.
Calling is definitely an option.... I just think that statement is more true in a ring game.... where as in a tournament... if the straight card comes off 1/5 times.... but every time it cost you your tournament life... The situation changes a bit? no?

#45 jaxup1985

jaxup1985

    Poker Forum Newbie

  • Members
  • 19 posts

Posted 05 August 2010 - 04:07 AM

View PostTrueAce13, on Wednesday, August 4th, 2010, 10:07 AM, said:

Alright, so I haven't posted yet on this hand...but am just gonna state what donk has said. Coming from a person who opens more than a lot of the players on this forum, given stack sizes, this is 100% a fine open to try to steal blinds and antes. Flop: perfectly fine imoTurn: Given villains sizing on the turn it really seems that he is betting as a bluff here and trying to get cheap to pick off our cbetting range (all our overs, etc). If he was betting for value, imo...i think he would bet a bit bigger on the turn to set up a bigger bet on the river, to try to play for stacks. Given that a lot of his range is worse hands. We can call, have him be like "wtf" oop and have to bluff the river to try to win the pot. And another thing with just flatting the turn (this is more stated towards nutz), if he does have his mid pair like, 77, 88, 44 or w/e type hands. If the river blanks and he checks for showdown, if he believes we are bluffing this river, he will also call off with worse. By raising and playing for stacks, he needs to have a 9 (which we can still play for stacks on the river) or a boat....oh yeah and the straight. But nothing like mid pairs are gonna play for stacks. He can't have any pair besides maybeeee 10s in his range b/c he is 3betting everything else. So yeah. Flatting this turn is ubbberrrr better and will get a lot more value
I looked at this hand wrong... you are right. When I looked at it the first time I saw the villain as the preflop raiser and the lead out on the flop... which left 10's JJ QQ KK AA in his range for me... you're right... not 3 betting and then not raising on the flop pretty much takes them out of the equation.. nice work.

#46 donk4life

donk4life

    Poker Forum Veteran

  • Members
  • 9,215 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 05 August 2010 - 05:13 AM

View Postjaxup1985, on Thursday, August 5th, 2010, 7:02 AM, said:

Calling is definitely an option.... I just think that statement is more true in a ring game.... where as in a tournament... if the straight card comes off 1/5 times.... but every time it cost you your tournament life... The situation changes a bit? no?
So we're suppose to shove here because 20 percent of the time a bad river card falls for us that may cost us our tournament life?

View Postakashenk, on 02 August 2012 - 06:44 AM, said:

I don't mind folding out hands we beat.

#47 Fade2241

Fade2241

    license to dream! lol

  • Members
  • 1,427 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Grindtown, USA
  • Favorite Poker Game:NL Cash & MTT's

Posted 05 August 2010 - 07:20 AM

View Postdonk4life, on Tuesday, August 3rd, 2010, 10:34 AM, said:

The table appears to be fairly deep, and if they're not playing back at him a lot then raising with a9s there is fine.
we'll agree to disagree. i'm a fairly laggy player but i just don't like the position here for a raise with a9s pf unless i kno the table is super weak. call it a preference thing i guess. i think it's fairly close either way (2.5x raise/fold). i don't think the debate here should be made about the pf play, so i'll leave it alone.

View Postdonk4life, on Tuesday, August 3rd, 2010, 5:56 PM, said:

But there are more bluffs in his range than medium pocket pairs, which makes shoving less profitable. And if he has a 9 then we're more than likely getting his stack on the river anyway.You're too caught up with the fact that a villain will "hero call' with a medium pocket pair here, when in actuality his line in no way represents some type of medium pair type hand.
you are spot on here, anyone who shoves the turn is def losing value and is making a -EV play. TrueAce stated it well also.

#48 delved

delved

    Poker Forum Groupie

  • Members
  • 906 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Stevens Point, WI
  • Interests:Sports, Poker, many movies, music, tv, etc.
  • Favorite Poker Game:2-7 Single Draw, MTTs

Posted 05 August 2010 - 03:13 PM

I talked this hand over with Fluff last night and he said I should be shoving turn. I know everyone has said to flat him on the turn, so I'm going to get him to post his thoughts.
Novak297: im gonna slow roll
Chat Monitor (Support): Novak297 has lost their chat privilege for 1 hour. Similar content spamming is prohibited.


Lennox21: push
Lennox21: I have AA
Lennox21: ty
Dealer: delved shows [Th Tc]
Dealer: Lennox21 shows [As Ac]
Dealer: delved shows three of a kind, Tens
Dealer: Lennox21 shows a pair of Aces
Dealer: delved wins the pot (66,621) with three of a kind, Tens
delved: no, thank you

#49 babylondonks

babylondonks

    I have had a perfectly wonderful evening

  • Members
  • 4,104 posts
  • Location:but this wasn't it.

Posted 05 August 2010 - 04:48 PM

I can't wait

#50 Tehtoe

Tehtoe

    I like to hide in plain sight.

  • Members
  • 6,049 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Milwaukee
  • Favorite Poker Game:MTTs

Posted 05 August 2010 - 07:43 PM

There you go guys, we were wrong!

#51 nutzzcase

nutzzcase

    Poker Forum Veteran

  • Members
  • 1,795 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 05 August 2010 - 07:45 PM

View PostTehtoe, on Thursday, August 5th, 2010, 8:43 PM, said:

There you go guys, we were wrong!
no

#52 FARGOpokerND

FARGOpokerND

    11-time National Champions!

  • Members
  • 6,163 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fargo
  • Interests:POKER!
  • Favorite Poker Game:PLO

Posted 05 August 2010 - 08:49 PM

Waiting...

#53 donk4life

donk4life

    Poker Forum Veteran

  • Members
  • 9,215 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 06 August 2010 - 05:19 AM

Obviously Fluff has a tell on the guy that justifies a shove on the turn. Doubt he's going to tell us.

View Postakashenk, on 02 August 2012 - 06:44 AM, said:

I don't mind folding out hands we beat.

#54 Mercury69

Mercury69

    Half man! Half man!

  • Members
  • 14,244 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Pftph!
  • Favorite Poker Game:NLHE

Posted 06 August 2010 - 05:29 AM

View Postdonk4life, on Friday, August 6th, 2010, 9:19 AM, said:

Obviously Fluff has a tell on the guy that justifies a shove on the turn. Doubt he's going to tell us.
It's the nose-pick-flick tell...I'm sure of it.
"We had all the momentum. We were riding the crest of a high and beautiful wave. So now, less than five years later, you can go up on a steep hill in Las Vegas and look west, and with the right kind of eyes you can almost see the high-water mark, that place where the wave finally broke and rolled back." —Raoul Duke, Fear And Loathing In Las Vegas

"Those are brave men knocking at the door. Let's go and kill them!" - Tyrion Lannister

#55 babylondonks

babylondonks

    I have had a perfectly wonderful evening

  • Members
  • 4,104 posts
  • Location:but this wasn't it.

Posted 06 August 2010 - 06:24 AM

phgil ivey tho

#56 TrueAce13

TrueAce13

    FCP Resident Donk

  • Members
  • 4,853 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ohio
  • Favorite Poker Game:PLO NLHE

Posted 06 August 2010 - 07:09 AM

View PostFARGOpokerND, on Thursday, August 5th, 2010, 9:49 PM, said:

Eagerly Waiting...

Pokerstars: TrueAce13 (Willard)
FT: TrueAce13
My First Poker Blog, please read and help me get better!

#57 outsider13

outsider13

    Poker Forum Veteran

  • Members
  • 4,132 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 06 August 2010 - 07:21 AM

Posted Image

#58 tbrick412

tbrick412

    cellar dweller

  • Members
  • 2,306 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Iowa
  • Interests:Poker, video games, attending college, drinking.
  • Favorite Poker Game:NL Hold 'Em SNG's/MTT's

Posted 06 August 2010 - 10:48 AM

............. fluff?
tbrick412(cedar falls) on stars/ftp
tbrick286 on AIM

#59 babylondonks

babylondonks

    I have had a perfectly wonderful evening

  • Members
  • 4,104 posts
  • Location:but this wasn't it.

Posted 06 August 2010 - 03:32 PM

quality advice itt, guess we all now understand why we should have jammed the turn

#60 nutzzcase

nutzzcase

    Poker Forum Veteran

  • Members
  • 1,795 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 06 August 2010 - 07:51 PM

can't sleep still waiting for fluff




1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users