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Ever Folding The 2nd Nuts Here?


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#1 Brutha K

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Posted 30 July 2010 - 07:08 PM

Really hard to fold here, but is it ever possible??Villain was semi-loose and had seen him flip out a few times on stupid bluffsPosted ImageFeral Cow Poker Hand ConverterPokerStars No-Limit Hold'em ($3.00+$0.30) t150/t300 ante t40 - 6 playersCO: t27,781 Button: t7,366 SB: t18,380 BB: t13,635 UTG: t10,745 UTG+1: t33,776 (Hero)Preflop: (t690) Hero is UTG+1 with :5c :club: (6 players)UTG folds, Hero raises to t900, 2 folds, SB calls t750, BB foldsFlop: (t2,340) :4h :qh :3h (2 players)SB checks, Hero bets t1336, SB calls t1336Turn: (t5,012) :ts (2 players)SB checks, Hero bets t2500, SB raises to t11700, Hero???
Brutha K: LOL, call with 8 high?
Spartan666: I thought he was bluffing...
Brutha K: So u called with 8 high, word?
Spartan666: Stfu

#2 rrumsey

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Posted 30 July 2010 - 09:38 PM

i mean villain is allin right? its sick but i would call. we are likely to get outdrawn/ get value owned a lot here. kinda a high variance move all together, which is why i fold pre because short of middle hearts on the flop were put in a tough spot. im not folding a st8 in a $3 thou, he could be drawing or have a set. but i can see you being owned a decent % the time here. I mean hope for a set, but you do lose this hand probably 20-30% the time.And to be honest i dont love you cbet here. I would rather you be cbetting total airballs and or a strong value hand then this. we have equity, why not take the free card?
Escalante in the small stakes grinder podcast in respect to my FPS " Bet your damn hands!!!" hahaha

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#3 Brutha K

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 06:31 PM

View Postrrumsey, on Saturday, July 31st, 2010, 5:38 PM, said:

i mean villain is allin right? its sick but i would call. we are likely to get outdrawn/ get value owned a lot here. kinda a high variance move all together, which is why i fold pre because short of middle hearts on the flop were put in a tough spot. im not folding a st8 in a $3 thou, he could be drawing or have a set. but i can see you being owned a decent % the time here. I mean hope for a set, but you do lose this hand probably 20-30% the time.And to be honest i dont love you cbet here. I would rather you be cbetting total airballs and or a strong value hand then this. we have equity, why not take the free card?
oh i see, i mean if i c-bet on that board and he has a KQ or something he's gunna call/raise me and im drawing only to a Q, so i may aswell take the free card and hope to get lucky and only c-bet flops he's likely to have missed or that i've hit, on the right track?
Brutha K: LOL, call with 8 high?
Spartan666: I thought he was bluffing...
Brutha K: So u called with 8 high, word?
Spartan666: Stfu

#4 rrumsey

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 07:16 AM

View PostBrutha K, on Saturday, July 31st, 2010, 7:31 PM, said:

oh i see, i mean if i c-bet on that board and he has a KQ or something he's gunna call/raise me and im drawing only to a Q, so i may aswell take the free card and hope to get lucky and only c-bet flops he's likely to have missed or that i've hit, on the right track?
no, cbet air. cbet for value with hands, or have a ton of outs ( like 2 overs and a st8 and or flush draw). dont cbet when checked to when you have some but not great equity for pot control. plus we can always steal on the turn. the idea is you could benefit so much from a good turn. if you catch a 10 or a nine i would bet and check behind on river unimproved. there is no point in turn you 10 high into a bluff. we have too much equity for that but not enough outs to semibluff. Its more about playing your hand well longterm here then his range. If we cbet here its not a true bluff, we are never getting anything better to fold, just his missed range to fold. which is ok, it may show a slight profit but long term we need to keep the chances of hits our hand open and being able to get value once that happens. make any sense? im not saying cbetting isnt +ev here, i think checking is better. plus we could hit our st8 and get owned because we made so many weak hands we would hope to pay us off later to fold right here.also in tournys we need to make sure we stay slightly safer on the risk reward side of things until we are well into the money and need to consider money value of chips at this point. marginal plays create variance. why take marginal improvement to your stack here when we can improve/ use position later and gain much more?
Escalante in the small stakes grinder podcast in respect to my FPS " Bet your damn hands!!!" hahaha

Download Spartan's podcast, Small Stakes Grinder! the link for iTunes is: (http://itunes.apple....der/id354114893)
Check out updates to the podcast in the "Members Blog" section of the forum (of pokerroad)...or else. Check it out guys it is a great podcast. Next Episode (Topic: Interview with Barry Greenstein Part 2): 04/19/10

#5 Brutha K

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 08:42 AM

aaahk yea i get ya now, cheers man
Brutha K: LOL, call with 8 high?
Spartan666: I thought he was bluffing...
Brutha K: So u called with 8 high, word?
Spartan666: Stfu

#6 Tehtoe

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 09:46 AM

Posted Image

#7 donk4life

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 10:01 AM

Drawing to 4 outs on the flop does not equate to equity. Oh, but we have a flushdraw

View Postakashenk, on 02 August 2012 - 06:44 AM, said:

I don't mind folding out hands we beat.

#8 babylondonks

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 10:30 AM

nonsense donk4life, utter nonsense. Plenty of equity imo. The OP hit didn't he!? If he didn't have much equity he wouldn't hit

#9 rrumsey

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 12:20 PM

View Postdonk4life, on Sunday, August 1st, 2010, 11:01 AM, said:

Drawing to 4 outs on the flop does not equate to equity. Oh, but we have a flushdraw

View Postbabylondonks, on Sunday, August 1st, 2010, 11:30 AM, said:

nonsense donk4life, utter nonsense. Plenty of equity imo. The OP hit didn't he!? If he didn't have much equity he wouldn't hit
so you guys prefer to cbet this flop? i mean i said cbetting is profitable.
Escalante in the small stakes grinder podcast in respect to my FPS " Bet your damn hands!!!" hahaha

Download Spartan's podcast, Small Stakes Grinder! the link for iTunes is: (http://itunes.apple....der/id354114893)
Check out updates to the podcast in the "Members Blog" section of the forum (of pokerroad)...or else. Check it out guys it is a great podcast. Next Episode (Topic: Interview with Barry Greenstein Part 2): 04/19/10

#10 rrumsey

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 12:21 PM

View PostTehtoe, on Sunday, August 1st, 2010, 10:46 AM, said:

Posted Image
my FTP avatar! lol. i think you have done this before when you didnt liek what i said!
Escalante in the small stakes grinder podcast in respect to my FPS " Bet your damn hands!!!" hahaha

Download Spartan's podcast, Small Stakes Grinder! the link for iTunes is: (http://itunes.apple....der/id354114893)
Check out updates to the podcast in the "Members Blog" section of the forum (of pokerroad)...or else. Check it out guys it is a great podcast. Next Episode (Topic: Interview with Barry Greenstein Part 2): 04/19/10

#11 donk4life

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 12:48 PM

Dis' boy is a sly one

View Postakashenk, on 02 August 2012 - 06:44 AM, said:

I don't mind folding out hands we beat.

#12 Actuary

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Posted 05 August 2010 - 01:34 AM

I like the flop bet. Doesn't everyone put you on AK when you raise pre. Heck, seems like you have decent fold equity. Other than chasing a bd flush, there really is ony 4 good turn cards, if villain calls flop. You do put yourself in this spot clearing the field with a solid multi way hand; but I hear open limping is for girly men. So here we are. I'd contnue to over represent my hand and give up on the turn if we do not improve.As played, easy call.ps. I'm no expert, Just like opining.

#13 BaseJester

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Posted 05 August 2010 - 03:32 PM

I like the c-bet, too. What would the villain check/raise that knocks us off this hand on the flop? It makes more sense to let the hero hand himself with all the garbage if he hit top pair of better. The only draw he could semibluff and not hate getting all his chips in would be QT, and we're in a reverse implied odds situation against that hand.
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#14 Acekob

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 01:51 AM

Raise less pre and call turn all day till the sun goes downOh, and don't listen to that Babylondon guy. He is top 5 worst player on FCP, just check the leaderboard.

#15 lurbz

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Posted 24 August 2010 - 06:51 PM

just fire 3 barrels every time u raiseez game
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#16 fighter

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Posted 30 August 2010 - 02:39 AM

View Postrrumsey, on Monday, August 2nd, 2010, 1:16 AM, said:

no, cbet air. cbet for value with hands, or have a ton of outs ( like 2 overs and a st8 and or flush draw). dont cbet when checked to when you have some but not great equity for pot control. plus we can always steal on the turn. the idea is you could benefit so much from a good turn. if you catch a 10 or a nine i would bet and check behind on river unimproved. there is no point in turn you 10 high into a bluff. we have too much equity for that but not enough outs to semibluff. Its more about playing your hand well longterm here then his range. If we cbet here its not a true bluff, we are never getting anything better to fold, just his missed range to fold. which is ok, it may show a slight profit but long term we need to keep the chances of hits our hand open and being able to get value once that happens. make any sense? im not saying cbetting isnt +ev here, i think checking is better. plus we could hit our st8 and get owned because we made so many weak hands we would hope to pay us off later to fold right here.also in tournys we need to make sure we stay slightly safer on the risk reward side of things until we are well into the money and need to consider money value of chips at this point. marginal plays create variance. why take marginal improvement to your stack here when we can improve/ use position later and gain much more?
i would rather cbet Gut shots and backdoor flush draw type hands then total airballs. They give you some cards you can continue to bluff on or hit and they need to work less often (even if it is only like 3% or W/E, that adds up)




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