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High Only Hands


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#1 bassplayer45459

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 05:08 PM

Well after roughly a 2 year hiatus i am making a return back to the tables with a small stack and grinding my way back up hopefully. Hi/lo used to be my speciality but there were always a few leaks in my game, one of them being how to play high only hands. I am just curious what range you guys like to have for high only hands and what position. I am torn between folding hands like K Q 10 J and such from middle position. What hands do you guys look for and how do you play em?
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#2 antistuff

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 07:04 PM

in pl for me it depends on who is already in the pot, how deep they are, and who is yet to act. if im first in i either need to be in a steal position or i want to feel pretty good about there being 3+ people in the pot most of the time. this is kind of true of almost every hand though.
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#3 rrumsey

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 06:31 AM

are to talking about open raising? open limping? in late position? i mean it isnt terrible to see cheap flops with these. correct types of flops are awesome. but putting anything in the pot beyond very small amounts is going to burn money
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#4 bassplayer45459

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 09:25 AM

I am talking about open raising and being in late position with raises in front mostly
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#5 raiseitup24

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 11:30 AM

I wouldnt be folding these type hands to an open raise especially if you have position. These hands play well in multi way pots and late in tournaments im 3 betting a lot of the time with this hand. Until you get back comfortable with the game I would suggest for you to play tight and only play these hands in position. Also where limping is wrong in most games in omaha it is not always the case as a lot of the times especially early you can get in cheap and are able to flop some big hands. I would say not to play many hands in early positions and try to play your hands with position as it is very important probably moreso in omaha than hold em.

#6 bassplayer45459

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 11:39 AM

Oh i agree, i am still getting comfortable again so i can 3 bet those types of hands so they look disguised as big low draws. The good side is high hands are easy to get away from if you miss, where as lows can be tempting to stay in. I am still forcing myself to get in the mindset that raising A A Q 5 in position is good and in early position is okay, but not as good. It is slowly coming back
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#7 MaxStPolish

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 04:26 PM

View Postraiseitup24, on Friday, July 23rd, 2010, 2:30 PM, said:

I wouldnt be folding these type hands to an open raise especially if you have position. These hands play well in multi way pots and late in tournaments im 3 betting a lot of the time with this hand. Until you get back comfortable with the game I would suggest for you to play tight and only play these hands in position. Also where limping is wrong in most games in omaha it is not always the case as a lot of the times especially early you can get in cheap and are able to flop some big hands. I would say not to play many hands in early positions and try to play your hands with position as it is very important probably moreso in omaha than hold em.
plz expand.I've long played with the mindset ESPECIALLY in tournies that I will rarely see a flop, nor attempt to create a bigger pot without a 2-way hand. I'm all about the limping early (tournies). Much like a deep even in hold 'em, try and make nuts and profit. Omaha provides plenty o opportunity in that.I'm intrigued to hear more about playing one way hands aggressively. Obviously position, position, position....but still, I'm hard pressed to build a pot up in split games only playing one way.

#8 raiseitup24

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 12:46 AM

View PostMaxStPolish, on Friday, July 23rd, 2010, 8:26 PM, said:

plz expand.I've long played with the mindset ESPECIALLY in tournies that I will rarely see a flop, nor attempt to create a bigger pot without a 2-way hand. I'm all about the limping early (tournies). Much like a deep even in hold 'em, try and make nuts and profit. Omaha provides plenty o opportunity in that.I'm intrigued to hear more about playing one way hands aggressively. Obviously position, position, position....but still, I'm hard pressed to build a pot up in split games only playing one way.
These high only hands can be very tricky to play in PLO8 but I think they are very profitable late in tournaments where a lot of times players are only 3 betting with aa with lows. One thing you do need to understand about these situations is that they play well mostly in multi way pots and dont play as well in heads up pots especially if you think low has already got there because obviously you are just chasing half the pot. I do think its very important to play these hands aggressively after the flop especially with wrap type flops. A lot of players are going to be calling one bet with backdoor draws so I have learned that 3-betting on the flop with big draws is the right play.

#9 MaxStPolish

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 09:14 AM

View Postraiseitup24, on Sunday, July 25th, 2010, 3:46 AM, said:

These high only hands can be very tricky to play in PLO8 but I think they are very profitable late in tournaments where a lot of times players are only 3 betting with aa with lows. One thing you do need to understand about these situations is that they play well mostly in multi way pots and dont play as well in heads up pots especially if you think low has already got there because obviously you are just chasing half the pot. I do think its very important to play these hands aggressively after the flop especially with wrap type flops. A lot of players are going to be calling one bet with backdoor draws so I have learned that 3-betting on the flop with big draws is the right play.
OK, I sorta agree then I guess. Late tourney strat for PLO/8 is definitely it's own beast. Since antes are typically not introduced, it allows players to err on the side of caution. The twofold benefit to aggressive plays with wider ranges would be that you will see less resistance since (i) no antes means each orbit costs much less so folding is okay, (ii) it takes longer for players to reach danger M zone where wider shoving becomes required.I agree that wider ranged betting (opening w/ raise with a high only rundown type hand) lets us essentially play two hands. One being the very strong AA2x type hands that typically raise, as well as the well disguised actual holding that can be big scoop profitable when they hit the flop. My chief concern is that raising late in PLO/8 tournies typically works to isolate. That's why, as I noted in my prior post, I'm all for limping occasionally with high rundowns with the theory of making high only scoop hands in multi-player pots. I respect raising a larger range than just AAxx and A2xx. That said you have to be very proficient post flop to succeed long term, and I feel that if you open your range up too much (which I tend to classify high only hands, almost in whole) you are walking a very fine line, because late game PF raises tend to isolate for flops. Couple that with the fact that blinds tend to catch up in a big way late in PLO/8 tournies, and limping is rarely the right play too, so I tend to pass on high only holdings unless it's like AAJT double suited or other monster high holding (a double suited rundown gets closer to that, but still its not a double nut suited draw).

#10 antistuff

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Posted 30 July 2010 - 08:03 PM

i feel like i have died and gone to express the very obvious in obtuse, misleading, and possibly completely incorrect ways land.
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#11 antistuff

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Posted 30 July 2010 - 08:08 PM

Quote

A lot of players are going to be calling one bet with backdoor draws so I have learned that 3-betting on the flop with big draws is the right play.
what does this even mean? can you give an example of a spot where you 3 bet the flop because somebody might be calling with a backdoor low draw? one where it would have been incorrect to 3 bet in the absence of somebody maybe calling with a backdoor low draw is best. you raise with big draws because your equity+fold equity > equity of hands he calls with (sort of, not expressed entirely correct but close enough and the idea is there).
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