8 replies to this topic

[custom36]

I just switched tables, and proceeded to hit a big run of cards. At this point, I've been dealt in 5 hands, played all 5, and showed down one pocket pair. I have no read against the villain.Villain is UTG+1 (8.85)Custom is BB (11.45) with TT1 foldVillain bets 0.402 foldsSB callsCustom callsPot: 1.54Flop: 2c 2s 4c2 checks, Villain bets $1.25, SB folds, Custom callsPot: 3.88Turn: 4sCustom checks, Villain bets 5.05Do you play it differently? Raise or fold?

[SuperJon]

custom36, on Tuesday, July 6th, 2010, 7:03 PM, said:

I just switched tables, and proceeded to hit a big run of cards. At this point, I've been dealt in 5 hands, played all 5, and showed down one pocket pair. I have no read against the villain.Villain is UTG+1 (8.85)Custom is BB (11.45) with TT1 foldVillain bets 0.40SB callsCustom callsPot: 1.54Flop: 2c 2s 4c2 checks, Villain bets $1.25, SB folds, Custom callsPot: 3.88Turn: 4sCustom checks, Villain bets 5.05Do you play it differently? Raise or fold?

Without reads, I think flatting PF w/10s to an EP raiser is probably okay, although I'm sure some could argue a 3bet to isolate is also okay.I suppose you could c/r the flop since a 224 board isn't likely to hit his non paired hands unless he has 44 or 22, each of which he's likely to check behind on the flop. Plus hands like flush draws, and 55-99 aren't folding.These are iffy spots for me, that I usually just take the more passive route, as it seems you did. Just c/c the flop and reeval on the turn. Obviously when he overbets the pot on the turn, you're now playing for his stack if you decide to continue with the hand.w/o reads, I just fold. I think you may occasionally see air in his range, but more times than not, he has you crushed.

[Ninja Ace]

3bet preflop. If you're not three betting TT pre 4 handed, what are you three betting?

SuperJon, on Tuesday, July 6th, 2010, 3:26 PM, said:

w/o reads, I just fold. I think you may occasionally see air in his range, but more times than not, he has you crushed.

This is ridiculous. Yes, it could be AA, KK, QQ, JJ, but it could also be any other pocket pair or lulz ace high as well. It's a snap call (techinically shove but yah). It's not fistpumping but it is automatic.

[custom36]

Ninja Ace, on Tuesday, July 6th, 2010, 7:53 PM, said:

3bet preflop. If you're not three betting TT pre 4 handed, what are you three betting

Sorry, it was 6 handed. I got lazy and didn't include the CO and Button folds. Fixed. Does this change your strategy?

[SuperJon]

Ninja Ace, on Tuesday, July 6th, 2010, 8:53 PM, said:

This is ridiculous. Yes, it could be AA, KK, QQ, JJ, but it could also be any other pocket pair or lulz ace high as well. It's a snap call (techinically shove but yah). It's not fistpumping but it is automatic.

At 10NL, with the majority of players being nits, you're not going to see very many double barrels like this by hands we have beat. Unless of course, villain is a complete lagtard, which is always possible.Getting it in here without reads is a guessing game, imo.

[rrumsey]

i bet fold the turn

[Ninja Ace]

custom36, on Tuesday, July 6th, 2010, 5:40 PM, said:

Sorry, it was 6 handed. I got lazy and didn't include the CO and Button folds. Fixed. Does this change your strategy?

No I'm still 3betting UTG 6 handed with TT easy... It just changes the adjustment to a 4bet, which involves us folding more

SuperJon, on Tuesday, July 6th, 2010, 7:00 PM, said:

At 10NL, with the majority of players being nits, you're not going to see very many double barrels like this by hands we have beat. Unless of course, villain is a complete lagtard, which is always possible.Getting it in here without reads is a guessing game, imo.

I think you're looking too much at the overbet and not realizing that if he bets anything 2/3's of the pot or greater he's committed. I think you can rule out a 2 or a 4, and if he does show up with these hands I want this info ASAP.Basically it looks like he's trying to blow us out of the pot... which usually means either he's bluffing or he has a vulnerable hand. It's probably the latter more often, but I think giving him a range that is skewed towards JJ+ is just seeing monsters in the closet. If this were something like a 6-6-7-7 board, i would be much more inclined to fold. The fact of the matter is though, on a 2-2-4-4 board, you shouldn't be surprised if he shows up with 5's or 3's even.The other thing the players $8.85 stack size gives away is that he very often is not a nit, and is likely an aggrofish who is thinking something along the lines of "i know you doesn't has a parts of that floop, i are nots to be getting rivered by this riggeded site again!" .

rrumsey, on Tuesday, July 6th, 2010, 7:35 PM, said:

i bet fold the turn

This just seems like the worst option possible... you're managing to fold out worse hands that will pay us on the turn/river, you're managing to fold the best hand fairly often after committing yourself, and you're putting yourself in gross river spots that are impossible to navigate on a ton of cards. Bet folding might be a viable option if we had say, 6's... but I hate donk betting, esp turn and rivers, so I'd never tell you to do that.We have a hand that is slightly above middle range on this board, the best thing we can do is let the villain bluff/value own himself.

[rrumsey]

Ninja Ace, on Tuesday, July 6th, 2010, 11:30 PM, said:

This just seems like the worst option possible... you're managing to fold out worse hands that will pay us on the turn/river, you're managing to fold the best hand fairly often after committing yourself, and you're putting yourself in gross river spots that are impossible to navigate on a ton of cards. Bet folding might be a viable option if we had say, 6's... but I hate donk betting, esp turn and rivers, so I'd never tell you to do that.We have a hand that is slightly above middle range on this board, the best thing we can do is let the villain bluff/value own himself.

I think it is better then check folding. That lets us get fired at by every flush draw in his range. Plus it is a pretty scary turn, i doubt we get raised unless he happens to have a monster. Plus if he just calls, we easily know what to do on the river while getting to set our own price. Your right, we may easily still have the best hand, but we are in a sh*tty postflop spot where i feel if we dont do something we easily get value owned and pay off 2 more streets here a ton. Bet folding saves us money when we are behind. And blocks flush draws from firing a second barrel, seeing how they will fear a boat. I do see your point thou, and it is pretty valid. I still think we tend to lose a lot less if we do that. And it makes river so much easier to play imo (if we get there)

[mtdesmoines]

Villain is betting a naked ace. Get it in.