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#1 FARGOpokerND

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 03:18 PM

Poker Stars $0.50/$1 Pot Limit Omaha Hi - 2 players - View hand 776037The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History ConverterHero (BTN/SB): $220.45BB: $146.00Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero is BTN/SB with Q :D J :club: T :3h 9 :DHero raises to $3, BB raises to $8, Hero raises to $22, BB calls $14Flop: ($44.00) Q :qh K :ts 3 :4h (2 players)BB checks, Hero checksTurn: ($44.00) 6 :jh (2 players)BB bets $42, Hero calls $42River: ($128.00) 6 :5c (2 players)BB bets $82 all in, Hero calls $82

#2 MaxStPolish

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 03:58 PM

Interesting hand. I think I agree with everything except the call at the end, but even that is up for debate. I like checking back on the flop with the extended dummy end draw+ pair. I like taking a pot control line on the turn. But for him to fire a 2nd barrel all-in on the river. I dunno, I guess by the book with a stack to pot ratio of less than 1 a call here is pretty much requisite. I mean, I figure that this player stacks off most of his range (as far as omaha ranges go), and I also suppose that it is more likely that he second barrels air much more often than he does with middling Kxxx hands. I just try and put myself in villains' shoes and how many times I nail a flop OOP HU and check it over just to get checked back to, and then go pot-pot in order to try and inflate the pot on the back end.Very curious to see how this showed down.

#3 FARGOpokerND

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 06:31 PM

My thought process in this hand was Preflop - Fairly standard with a monster and position and he never folds to my 4betsFlop - He had mixed in a few check/raises in the past and I really don't think my hand plays very well vs his c/r range and I know my hand still has very good value vs his calling of 4bet range.Turn - His bet could be sososo many things. It is totally possible that my Q is ahead as is...he could rep so many hands here. I have a wrap still as well. I feel he can't really bluff a flush on a river if one of the draws hit, so I think he is bad enough that I can profitably bet a flush river he checks to me.River - He almost instabets the river here. This is weird to me because not only does that river complete a flush, it also completes a boat. Anyone who had a flush draw would at least take a second to recognize the board paired. Also anyone with a boat would take a second to plan out course of action. Since he almost insta-potted, I just couldn't give him credit for any hand, which led to my call.

#4 FARGOpokerND

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 06:31 PM

Poker Stars $0.50/$1 Pot Limit Omaha Hi - 2 players - View hand 776037The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History ConverterHero (BTN/SB): $220.45BB: $146.00Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero is BTN/SB with Q :5c J :club: T :qh 9 :club:Hero raises to $3, BB raises to $8, Hero raises to $22, BB calls $14Flop: ($44.00) Q :jh K :ts 3 :4h (2 players)BB checks, Hero checksTurn: ($44.00) 6 :D (2 players)BB bets $42, Hero calls $42River: ($128.00) 6 :5c (2 players)BB bets $82 all in, Hero calls $82Final Pot: $292.00Hero shows Q :3h J :3h T :D 9 :ts (two pair, Queens and Sixes)BB shows 7 :4h J :D 8 :D 7 :qh (two pair, Sevens and Sixes)Hero wins $291.50(Rake: $0.50)

#5 Mills

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 08:03 PM

Im not sure I understand your reasoning for calling down on the end there. Isn't a king just as much of a bluff as 77 there? He could very well be bluffing and roll over the winner, no?

#6 rrumsey

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 08:39 PM

yah river is a fold.
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#7 FARGOpokerND

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 10:09 PM

View PostMills, on Monday, June 28th, 2010, 11:03 PM, said:

Im not sure I understand your reasoning for calling down on the end there. Isn't a king just as much of a bluff as 77 there? He could very well be bluffing and roll over the winner, no?
I lose to a King there...but is he going to be turning a king into a bluff all that often? If we determine he is bluffing, how often is his bluff air, and how often is his bluff a king? I only need to be right once every ~3.7 times to be profitable. "Wrong" includes all bluffs with a King.

#8 MaxStPolish

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Posted 29 June 2010 - 02:26 PM

View PostFARGOpokerND, on Tuesday, June 29th, 2010, 1:09 AM, said:

I lose to a King there...but is he going to be turning a king into a bluff all that often? If we determine he is bluffing, how often is his bluff air, and how often is his bluff a king? I only need to be right once every ~3.7 times to be profitable. "Wrong" includes all bluffs with a King.
Bolded for truth. That's the key to this hand I think. As well as the timing read that we couldn't really be privy to. You would think that he's trying to achieve showdown with any two pair hands. Then again the problem is that PSR is sub 1 by the river, so if he's going to call with his holding, he's typically better off shoveling it in there....unless metagame is so high that he thinks he's ahead, but can only get the rest of stacks in by checking it over for a desperation bluff shove.Based on SPR sizing, I think by the river, you almost have to revert to preflop ranging when making the river decision, along with the player history (i.e. does he have the stones to double barrel turn/river with relative postflop rags).Thx for posting this hand. This is a good example of a troublesome hand. While I still probably find a fold here, I think the points of order of 1) perceived timing tell based on board dynamic; 2) Stack to Pot ratio/price you are getting on the call.Even then this isn't the world's easiest call I think because as Mills points out, not only do a shit ton of cards beat you, but some bluff shoves turn over a winner here too. I think the timing tell is critical to this hand. If there's no basis to feel like this is a straight bluff once the board pairs and the flop flush gets there, it's a difficult river call to make, even getting those odds. Nice hand. There's nothing more satisfying in poker IMO than picking off a bluff line for all the right reasons in PLO.

#9 MIddLES

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 11:46 PM

very nice hand i think that your call on the end here should be pretty standard vs most opponents religiously flatting our 4 bets and your thought process rocks. you almost never have much of a hand here and i would expect many opponents in this dynamic to jam their entire range on this river. the texture of the flop and the high rundown nature of our hand really help me feel comfortable with a call like this and if he had tank jammed the river i would really be torn nh

#10 Tomag51

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 04:22 PM

Can you explain to me what was your idea behind reraising his raise preflop and checking behind on flop...You are showing strenght of your hand preflop (with decent hand) and then you check post flop?

Since you are sure he doesn't have a K I dont understand call on the turn ...it should be a raise in my opinion with two flush draws on the table.

The only thing I do understand in your hand is the river call...:)

MaxSTPolish is right...this play was bold for me too.

Nice pot tho, so congratz. :)




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