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A Mosque On The Twin Towers Site?


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#41 SweetDee

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 04:07 PM

View Postnutzbuster, on Wednesday, May 26th, 2010, 2:14 PM, said:

It's a dick move. period.
It's a dick move. It's akin to a rapist being allowed to open a lemonade stand at the site of his last rape, and naming the stand after his victim. That being said, it's perfectly legal and as a free society who also protects people who protest at funerals, this has to be allowed. We can't pick and choose when free speech/freedom of religion is allowed, and since the BG guy seems to be religious of sorts I would say ESPECIALLY when religion is involved, unless you want to be next to be censored.
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#42 Balloon guy

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 04:10 PM

View PostSweetDee, on Wednesday, May 26th, 2010, 5:07 PM, said:

It's a dick move. It's akin to a rapist being allowed to open a lemonade stand at the site of his last rape, and naming the stand after his victim. That being said, it's perfectly legal and as a free society who also protects people who protest at funerals, this has to be allowed. We can't pick and choose when free speech/freedom of religion is allowed, and since the BG guy seems to be religious of sorts I would say ESPECIALLY when religion is involved, unless you want to be next to be censored.
Fact is they as a religion are really not as far removed from the mindset of the terrorist. They couldn't find a common voice when the terrorist behead women or aid workers, they can't find a voice when Americans are hung from bridges, but report that the Koran is being flushed down a toilet, or that a cartoonist made a cartoon about Mohamed..they can find a voice then.I think it is perfectly understandable to remove the guys who picket soldiers funerals, their message isn't worth protecting, and I am cool with telling this mosque that they can't have a permit.I'm not one of the slippery slope brigade
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#43 BigDMcGee

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 04:36 PM

View PostBalloon guy, on Wednesday, May 26th, 2010, 7:10 PM, said:

Fact is they as a religion are really not as far removed from the mindset of the terrorist. They couldn't find a common voice when the terrorist behead women or aid workers, they can't find a voice when Americans are hung from bridges, but report that the Koran is being flushed down a toilet, or that a cartoonist made a cartoon about Mohamed..they can find a voice then.I think it is perfectly understandable to remove the guys who picket soldiers funerals, their message isn't worth protecting, and I am cool with telling this mosque that they can't have a permit.I'm not one of the slippery slope brigade
But again, why not just call for islam to be banned in general. You used the example of gun control as a way of the government putting limits on one of our constitutional rights. They do this for public safty, as private citizens owning rocket launchers really isn't in the public's best interest. They also limit speech in this way. Yelling "fire" in a crowded theater, where there is no fire, is not protected speech. Dangerous speech is limited. The reason you would limit this islamic group from it's free practice of religion, is because you think it's dangerous. So I ask again, why stop at 2 blocks? IF islam is dangerous, if their mindset is not far removed from a terrorist, as you say, then take it to it's logical conclusion, and call for islam to be banned in general, round muslims up into prisons, deport them. 2 blocks or 2 boroughs, of they are dangerous, they are dangerous.
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#44 hblask

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 06:44 PM

I just want to thank BigD for saving me getting involved in this one. Right on the money!
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#45 BigDMcGee

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 07:00 PM

View Posthblask, on Wednesday, May 26th, 2010, 9:44 PM, said:

I just want to thank BigD for saving me getting involved in this one. Right on the money!
Right on the money that we should allow them to build the mosque ( distasteful though it might be to us) or right on the money we should ban islam and deport and imprison muslims for being seditious?
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#46 hblask

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 07:09 PM

View PostBigDMcGee, on Wednesday, May 26th, 2010, 9:00 PM, said:

Right on the money that we should allow them to build the mosque ( distasteful though it might be to us) or right on the money we should ban islam and deport and imprison muslims for being seditious?
That we have to decide if they're dangerous. If not, then they can build anywhere; if they are, then they can't build anywhere. And yes, building there is clearly designed to piss people off, but that cannot be a legal basis for banning them. It certainly won't help their case, if they are hoping to show us that Al Qeda is just a radical fringe group.(And for the record, I don't think the religion as a whole meets the test of 'overall dangerous'.)
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#47 BigDMcGee

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 07:30 PM

View Posthblask, on Wednesday, May 26th, 2010, 10:09 PM, said:

(And for the record, I don't think the religion as a whole meets the test of 'overall dangerous'.)
I wish someone would step up and make the argument. BG didn't have the stomach for it. Where's scram when you need him.
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#48 BaseJester

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 07:46 PM

Quote

"The Islamic method of waging war is not to kill innocent civilians. But it was Christians in World War II who bombed civilians in Dresden and Hiroshima, neither of which were military targets."
There was a large military presence in Hiroshima. I think there's a good argument that the bombing wasn't necessary for Japan's surrender, but it's inaccurate to describe Hiroshima as a civilian-only target.
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#49 vbnautilus

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 10:47 PM

View PostEl Guapo, on Wednesday, May 26th, 2010, 3:30 PM, said:

I'm confused, do people actually think it's ok for a Muslim Mosque to be built on the site where Muslim Extremists, in the name of their Religion, waged war and killed over 3,000 people?
It's not really on the site. Its a few blocks away. There are already mosques all over manhattan. How close should they be allowed to get to ground zero? I would prefer there were no mosques at all in new york, but to get rid of them we are going to need to find the antidote to religion.

#50 BigDMcGee

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 10:47 PM

View Postvbnautilus, on Thursday, May 27th, 2010, 1:47 AM, said:

It's not really on the site. Its a few blocks away. There are already mosques all over manhattan. How close should they be allowed to get to ground zero? I would prefer there were no mosques at all in new york, but to get rid of them we are going to need to find the antidote to religion.
The pretty ones can stay.
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#51 LongLiveYorke

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 11:39 PM

View PostBalloon guy, on Wednesday, May 26th, 2010, 1:07 PM, said:

Last time I was in the city, I couldn't find a good piece of pizza. I am beginning to think that New York doesn't have any good pizza restaurants.
Posted ImageYOU LIE

#52 timwakefield

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Posted 27 May 2010 - 01:39 AM

View PostBalloon guy, on Wednesday, May 26th, 2010, 1:07 PM, said:

I am beginning to think that New York doesn't have any good pizza restaurants.
This is probably the silliest thing you've ever said. I'm practically at a loss for words on how to explain how wrong you are. My knowledge only touches Manhattan and Brooklyn, but here's a quick breakdown, because a lot of you guys seem to need it. First of all, you need to know what to order. 90% of pizza shops in NY are your average price-range, etc. So I'm just talking about these here - more specifics on your classy and/or expensive joints later. What you want to order is a "slice," which is New-York for plain. The other famous New York pizza, which is more ubiquitous in Brooklyn than in Manhattan in my experience, is the "Grandma" slice. As in, "Lemme get a slice of Gramma." It looks like this:Posted ImageIt has lots of fresh sauce, is sometimes messy, and has a lot of garlic usually, I think. I also think there's something other than mozzarella going on, or in-addition-to-mozzarella. Probably parmesan, not sure though. Some places also have excellent Sicilian, but some places really don't. I'd stick with plain or Grandma, at your average joint. I'm only showing that picture to familiarize you with it, not to suggest it as the #1 choice. A normal plain (triangular) slice is still #1. Manhattan: A bit of a mixed bag, for a cheap slice. In some neighborhoods you can't go wrong (unless you're an idiot and find the Pizza Hut), in other neighborhoods you can find something maybe serviceable, hopefully. As far as gourmet though ('gourmet pizza' to me means anyplace that has waiters - they'll also usually do take-out and delivery too though), it's relatively easy to get an outstanding $20-$30 pie, with a topping or 2, in many areas. Some of the cheap places are also outstanding. And I'm sure there are some really world-class pizza joints, but if you want the best pizza you have to go to...Brooklyn!As far as the absolute best, I've really only had a small taste, but it was tremendous. There are I think 2 (and maybe 1 other in the Bronx?) slightly-famous pizzerias where it's just an old probably-Italian dude, an oven, a small place, and he really just makes 1 or maybe 2 or 3 different pies and they cost like $35 and are stupid. Absolutely stupid. Best pizza I've ever had (yes i've been to Italy, for over a month even). And for cheap slices in Brooklyn, basically the same as Manhattan except you'll have a bit more luck on average, and also a few more Grandma slices.
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#53 LongLiveYorke

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Posted 27 May 2010 - 03:31 AM

Also, back on topic, isn't building a Mosque next to the 9-11 site the ultimate version of turning the other cheek:

Jesus, Son of God, on Matthew, said:

If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.


#54 85suited

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Posted 27 May 2010 - 04:35 AM

View PostEl Guapo, on Wednesday, May 26th, 2010, 5:30 PM, said:

I'm confused, do people actually think it's ok for a Muslim Mosque to be built on the site where Muslim Extremists, in the name of their Religion, waged war and killed over 3,000 people?If a group of people bombed Big Ben, claimed to be Catholics against the state of England, do you think there is any chance a Catholic Church would then be erected in the same spot 10 years later?Free country or not, this is just asinine. Who would sell the land to someone who wanted to do that?
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#55 Roll the Bones

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Posted 27 May 2010 - 06:46 AM

View PostRoll the Bones, on Wednesday, May 26th, 2010, 2:42 PM, said:

BG, sometimes it's just fun to point out how wrong and bigoted you can be. Obviously if they were all athiests we wouldn't be having this discussion.
This bothered me last night, I was an ******* and apologize for that comment.
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#56 Balloon guy

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Posted 27 May 2010 - 06:46 AM

View PostBigDMcGee, on Wednesday, May 26th, 2010, 8:30 PM, said:

I wish someone would step up and make the argument. BG didn't have the stomach for it. Where's scram when you need him.
True
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#57 Balloon guy

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Posted 27 May 2010 - 06:49 AM

View PostRoll the Bones, on Thursday, May 27th, 2010, 7:46 AM, said:

This bothered me last night, I was an ******* and apologize for that comment.
I would have cast a stone at you...but you know...
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#58 Balloon guy

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Posted 27 May 2010 - 06:50 AM

View Posttimwakefield, on Thursday, May 27th, 2010, 2:39 AM, said:

This is probably the silliest thing you've ever said.
Not true.By a mile
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#59 Roll the Bones

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Posted 27 May 2010 - 06:53 AM

View PostSweetDee, on Wednesday, May 26th, 2010, 8:07 PM, said:

It's a dick move. It's akin to a rapist being allowed to open a lemonade stand at the site of his last rape, and naming the stand after his victim. That being said, it's perfectly legal and as a free society who also protects people who protest at funerals, this has to be allowed. We can't pick and choose when free speech/freedom of religion is allowed, and since the BG guy seems to be religious of sorts I would say ESPECIALLY when religion is involved, unless you want to be next to be censored.
Sorry but no where close. It would be like not allowing his distant uncle from opening a lemonade stand there who had nothing to do with it.
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#60 Balloon guy

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Posted 27 May 2010 - 06:53 AM

View PostLongLiveYorke, on Thursday, May 27th, 2010, 4:31 AM, said:

Also, back on topic, isn't building a Mosque next to the 9-11 site the ultimate version of turning the other cheek:
Ahh forgiveness of your enemy defense.As a Christian man, I forgive the people that do me harm ( or should )As an American, I am completely justified to want my country to defend itself.The Bible doesn't command us to lay down our ability to protect ourselves or our neighbors.Why do you think so many Christian groups have lots of guns?
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