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A Mosque On The Twin Towers Site?


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#1 Balloon guy

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 08:18 AM

CNN's story:

Quote

New York (CNN) -- Plans to build a mosque two blocks away from ground zero have set off an emotional debate among area residents and relatives of victims of the September 11, 2001 terror attacks.Cordoba House project calls for a 15-story community center including a mosque, performance art center, gym, swimming pool and other public spaces.The project is a collaboration between the American Society for Muslim Advancement and the Cordoba Initiative, both of which work to improve relations with followers of the religion.The two groups presented their vision to part of the Community Board of lower Manhattan on Wednesday night.Ro Sheffe, a board member who attended the meeting, said the project did not need to get the board's approval."They own the land, and their plans don't have any zoning changes," Sheffe said. "They came to us for our opinions and to let us know their plans. It was purely voluntary on their part."The 12 members who were at the meeting voted unanimously to support the project. Community board members are appointed by the borough president and serve as advisers to the borough president and the mayor's office.Daisy Khan, executive director of the Muslim society, described her vision of a center led by Muslims, but serving the community as a whole."It will have a real community feel, to celebrate the pluralism in the United States, as well as in the Islamic religion," Khan said. "It will also serve as a major platform for amplifying the silent voice of the majority of Muslims who have nothing to do with extremist ideologies. It will counter the extremist momentum."The need for the center is twofold, Khan said, because it will support the needs of the growing Muslim community."The time for a center like this has come because Islam is an American religion," Khan said. "We need to take the 9/11 tragedy and turn it into something very positive."Sheffe said a community center for lower Manhattan residents is "desperately needed." The area was mostly commercial, Sheffe said, but as more people move downtown, the lack of residential amenities is a problem.
The things they kind of leave out?The Imman of this Mosque is Feiasl Abdul RaufThis is his Wiki breakdown of his views:

Quote

Speaking at his New York mosque in 2004, Imam Feisal stated that the US and the West must acknowledge the harm they have done to Muslims before terrorism can end. He also noted that it was Christians who started mass attacks on civilians: "The Islamic method of waging war is not to kill innocent civilians. But it was Christians in World War II who bombed civilians in Dresden and Hiroshima, neither of which were military targets." He also said that there could be little progress in Western-Islamic relations until the U.S. acknowledged backing Middle East dictators and gave an "American Culpa" speech to the Muslim world, because there are "an endless supply of angry young Muslim rebels prepared to die for their cause and there [is] no sign of the attacks ending unless there [is] a fundamental change in the world".
A few more of his teachings:In an interview with Beliefnet on Islam and America, a reporter asked Rauf, "Some Islamic charities are being investigated for terrorist ties. Have you seen what you consider to be reputable Islamic charities being financially damaged?""We believe that a certain portion of every charity has been legitimate," he responded. "To say that you have connections with terrorism is a very gray area. It's like the accusation that Saddam Hussein had links to Osama bin Laden. Well, America had links to Osama bin Laden does that mean that America is a terrorist country or has ties to terrorism?"In 2004, Rauf participated in a 30-second advertisement, broadcast on Arabic television, in which he apologized for alleged abuses at Abu Ghraib prison.The Times reported Rauf said he believes "Islamic terrorists do not come from another moral universe that they arise from oppressive societies that he feels Washington had a hand in creating."Should the city let them built a Mosque in the place of a building that was damaged when the landing gear of one of the 9-11 planes crashed through the roof?
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#2 Pot Odds RAC

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 08:30 AM

View PostBalloon guy, on Wednesday, May 26th, 2010, 12:18 PM, said:

Should the city let them built a Mosque in the place of a building that was damaged when the landing gear of one of the 9-11 planes crashed through the roof?
How far is far enough? The real question is should we allow an individual (rather than an entire religion) to do certain things. Like it or not the fundamental tenets of our Country include freedom to associate with whomever you want, freedom to pray to God however you want, and freedom of speech. Or we could do what the French are doing and ban Hijabs and Burqas as if the Religion and its trappings are the issue instead of the actions of those who would twist the religion for sickening ends.

#3 Balloon guy

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 08:36 AM

View PostPot Odds RAC, on Wednesday, May 26th, 2010, 9:30 AM, said:

How far is far enough? The real question is should we allow an individual (rather than an entire religion) to do certain things. Like it or not the fundamental tenets of our Country include freedom to associate with whomever you want, freedom to pray to God however you want, and freedom of speech. Or we could do what the French are doing and ban Hijabs and Burqas as if the Religion and its trappings are the issue instead of the actions of those who would twist the religion for sickening ends.
This issue has risen before when the American Nazi Skinheads Who Can't Tie Their Own Shoes applied for a permit to march through a Jewish Neighborhood.Does freedom of speech allow you to use speech that is specifically hurtful to a group of people and shove it directly in their face?What is the responsibility of the Mosque to consider the feelings of the people who lost family in 9-11?
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#4 Roll the Bones

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 08:38 AM

Sounds like Feiasl Abdul Rauf makes some valid points against Christians.
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#5 Balloon guy

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 08:39 AM

View PostRoll the Bones, on Wednesday, May 26th, 2010, 9:38 AM, said:

Sounds like Feiasl Abdul Rauf makes some valid points against Christians.
The enemy of your enemy is your friend.You know he was talking about America? Not Christians as a religion.Of course blindness might have allowed you to miss that small point.America..Love it or leave it
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#6 FCP Bob

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 08:43 AM

View PostRoll the Bones, on Wednesday, May 26th, 2010, 12:38 PM, said:

Sounds like Feiasl Abdul Rauf makes some valid points against Christians.
Everything that you quoted him saying seems to be pretty much 100% true.
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#7 Jeepster80125

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 08:45 AM

View PostBalloon guy, on Wednesday, May 26th, 2010, 10:39 AM, said:

The enemy of your enemy is your friend.You know he was talking about America? Not Christians as a religion.Of course blindness might have allowed you to miss that small point.America..Love it or leave it
Haven't you used stats that show some large percentage of this country is christian?
Posted Image
QUOTE (Spademan @ Friday, May 22nd, 2009, 4:24 PM)
We are both being judgmental, the only difference is my judgments are well reasoned, well presented and actually have something to do with reality whereas yours are inane assumption wrapped in a steaming pile of contradiction.

#8 Balloon guy

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 08:46 AM

View PostFCP Bob, on Wednesday, May 26th, 2010, 9:43 AM, said:

Everything that you quoted him saying seems to be pretty much 100% true.
"The Islamic method of waging war is not to kill innocent civilians."?
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#9 Balloon guy

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 08:50 AM

View PostJeepster80125, on Wednesday, May 26th, 2010, 9:45 AM, said:

Haven't you used stats that show some large percentage of this country is christian?
No, but it wouldn't matter. We are a Christian Nation, everyone with a brain knows this.So you are agreeing with Randy that anytime America does anything, that it is the same as the entire Christian religion doing it?The Imman is saying that the WWII bombing of Dresden is proof that Christians killed innocent civilians first.Anyone every hear of Mohamed?
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#10 Pot Odds RAC

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 08:57 AM

C'mon.We didn't bomb Hiroshima or act in WWII as Christians against Buddhists. That is a pretty significant distinction. So is the fact that we were attacked first in that particular conflict.

#11 Balloon guy

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 09:00 AM

View PostPot Odds RAC, on Wednesday, May 26th, 2010, 9:57 AM, said:

C'mon.We didn't bomb Hiroshima or act in WWII as Christians against Buddhists. That is a pretty significant distinction.
People who hate Christianity are stuck making strange bedfellows...Any comment that supports their hate is filtered through their need to support their hate.They probably don't even see how insane this position is.
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#12 LongLiveYorke

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 09:05 AM

I'd be more offended if they put another "Original Ray's Pizza" nearby. No one's buying that lie anymore. I mean, come on!

#13 Jeepster80125

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 09:06 AM

View PostBalloon guy, on Wednesday, May 26th, 2010, 10:39 AM, said:

The enemy of your enemy is your friend.You know he was talking about America? Not Christians as a religion.Of course blindness might have allowed you to miss that small point.America..Love it or leave it

View PostJeepster80125, on Wednesday, May 26th, 2010, 10:45 AM, said:

Haven't you used stats that show some large percentage of this country is christian?

View PostBalloon guy, on Wednesday, May 26th, 2010, 10:50 AM, said:

No, but it wouldn't matter. We are a Christian Nation, everyone with a brain knows this.So you are agreeing with Randy that anytime America does anything, that it is the same as the entire Christian religion doing it?The Imman is saying that the WWII bombing of Dresden is proof that Christians killed innocent civilians first.Anyone every hear of Mohamed?
I don't think it's accurate to say that this guy was referring to Americans and not Christians. As you've said, this nation is mostly Christian, so obviously he was referring to Christians. or something.I'm not going to take a position on what randy said, that doesn't interest me.
Posted Image
QUOTE (Spademan @ Friday, May 22nd, 2009, 4:24 PM)
We are both being judgmental, the only difference is my judgments are well reasoned, well presented and actually have something to do with reality whereas yours are inane assumption wrapped in a steaming pile of contradiction.

#14 Balloon guy

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 09:07 AM

View PostLongLiveYorke, on Wednesday, May 26th, 2010, 10:05 AM, said:

I'd be more offended if they put another "Original Ray's Pizza" nearby. No one's buying that lie anymore. I mean, come on!
Last time I was in the city, I couldn't find a good piece of pizza. I am beginning to think that New York doesn't have any good pizza restaurants.
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#15 Balloon guy

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 09:09 AM

View PostJeepster80125, on Wednesday, May 26th, 2010, 10:06 AM, said:

I don't think it's accurate to say that this guy was referring to Americans and not Christians. As you've said, this nation is mostly Christian, so obviously he was referring to Christians. or something.I'm not going to take a position on what randy said, that doesn't interest me.
In the OPHe also noted that it was Christians who started mass attacks on civilians: "The Islamic method of waging war is not to kill innocent civilians. But it was Christians in World War II who bombed civilians in Dresden and Hiroshima, neither of which were military targets."
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#16 nutzbuster

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 09:27 AM

View PostBalloon guy, on Wednesday, May 26th, 2010, 10:07 AM, said:

Last time I was in the city, I couldn't find a good piece of pizza. I am beginning to think that New York doesn't have any good pizza restaurants.
Best New York style Pizza in the Country was determined recently to be in PHOENIX.The guy is from the New York area, and the lines are 3 hours deep to get into this place. Not sure what "the best" means, but I can vouch first hand that this is indeed one of the best pies I have ever eaten.http://www.pizzeriabianco.com/http://dinersjournal...ys-rachael-ray/and LOL RELIGION OF PEACE!



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#17 Balloon guy

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 09:49 AM

View Postnutzbuster, on Wednesday, May 26th, 2010, 10:27 AM, said:

Best New York style Pizza in the Country was determined recently to be in PHOENIX.The guy is from the New York area, and the lines are 3 hours deep to get into this place. Not sure what "the best" means, but I can vouch first hand that this is indeed one of the best pies I have ever eaten.http://www.pizzeriabianco.com/http://dinersjournal...ys-rachael-ray/and LOL RELIGION OF PEACE!
So would you say that New York STYLE of pizza is the best?Or Chicago?Because I have always found both to basically suck.Give me California Pizza anytime.But not that California Pizza Kitchen stuff, that stuff is like cardboard.
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#18 Roll the Bones

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 10:42 AM

View PostBalloon guy, on Wednesday, May 26th, 2010, 1:00 PM, said:

People who hate Christianity are stuck making strange bedfellows...Any comment that supports their hate is filtered through their need to support their hate.They probably don't even see how insane this position is.
BG, sometimes it's just fun to point out how wrong and bigoted you can be. Obviously if they were all athiests we wouldn't be having this discussion.

View PostLongLiveYorke, on Wednesday, May 26th, 2010, 1:05 PM, said:

I'd be more offended if they put another "Original Ray's Pizza" nearby. No one's buying that lie anymore. I mean, come on!
That was the hardest I've laughed in a long time. Excellent.
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#19 vbnautilus

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 10:47 AM

View PostLongLiveYorke, on Wednesday, May 26th, 2010, 10:05 AM, said:

I'd be more offended if they put another "Original Ray's Pizza" nearby. No one's buying that lie anymore. I mean, come on!
awesome

View PostBalloon guy, on Wednesday, May 26th, 2010, 10:07 AM, said:

Last time I was in the city, I couldn't find a good piece of pizza. I am beginning to think that New York doesn't have any good pizza restaurants.
Joe's on Bleeker recently opened a spot in Santa Monica. There's no reason to go to New York any more. Unless they get Lebron.

#20 Balloon guy

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 10:50 AM

View Postvbnautilus, on Wednesday, May 26th, 2010, 11:47 AM, said:

awesomeJoe's on Bleeker recently opened a spot in Santa Monica. There's no reason to go to New York any more. Unless they get Lebron.
Joe's....on Bleakers....in Santa Monica....Something is not computing here.
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