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Bad Timing Or Bad Move?


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#1 cashman

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Posted 07 April 2010 - 12:59 PM

Live tournament at the local card room. 15 minute blinds and a starting stack of 5k chips. Early on I had more than doubled up when I flopped a straight and turned a full house in the first 30 minutes. However, after consistantly getting very weak starting hands and a couple of middle pairs, I was down to just 4300 an hour and a half in w/the blinds at 200/400 and 25 antes. I was the small blind and was dealt Ad9d. There was one limper, a guy that is very loose and was playing almost every hand. No other players had entered the hand by the time it got to me. He is a solid player, but he is always very active preflop and putting him on a range is difficult. I decided that w/just over 10Ms it was time to at least try to pick up the pot. I shoved. Unfortunately the BB woke up w/a hand and eventually decided to call w/AQ. The limper folded and showed his ace when he did. Two ds hit the flop but no more came and I was out. Couple of thoughts I had after I busted out. Would it have been better to limp into the hand? An ace came but not until the turn and w/2 ds I am pretty sure I would have made a large semi bluff after the flop. I am thinking that AQ probably folds and assuming that the limper's kicker missed as well he probably goes away too. Or Would it have been better to just make a standard raise PF rather than go all in. If I bet 1200 preflop and the flop comes out garbage maybe I can bluff him off the hand. A couple of the guys I play with always smooth call when they put the other player on a big ace and they have pairs. They figure they can apply maximum pressure on them with a weak board. AQ preflop is big, but if you whiff its tough to call a big continuation bet.Was this just bad timing or a mistake on my part?

#2 outsider13

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Posted 07 April 2010 - 01:02 PM

ipits. Also, you had just over 10bb, not an M of 10.

#3 dead money

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Posted 07 April 2010 - 03:45 PM

View Postcashman, on Wednesday, April 7th, 2010, 1:59 PM, said:

Live tournament at the local card room. 15 minute blinds and a starting stack of 5k chips. Early on I had more than doubled up when I flopped a straight and turned a full house in the first 30 minutes. However, after consistantly getting very weak starting hands and a couple of middle pairs, I was down to just 4300 an hour and a half in w/the blinds at 200/400 and 25 antes. I was the small blind and was dealt Ad9d. There was one limper, a guy that is very loose and was playing almost every hand. No other players had entered the hand by the time it got to me. He is a solid player, but he is always very active preflop and putting him on a range is difficult. I decided that w/just over 10Ms it was time to at least try to pick up the pot. I shoved. Unfortunately the BB woke up w/a hand and eventually decided to call w/AQ. The limper folded and showed his ace when he did. Two ds hit the flop but no more came and I was out. Couple of thoughts I had after I busted out. Would it have been better to limp into the hand? An ace came but not until the turn and w/2 ds I am pretty sure I would have made a large semi bluff after the flop. I am thinking that AQ probably folds and assuming that the limper's kicker missed as well he probably goes away too. Or Would it have been better to just make a standard raise PF rather than go all in. If I bet 1200 preflop and the flop comes out garbage maybe I can bluff him off the hand. A couple of the guys I play with always smooth call when they put the other player on a big ace and they have pairs. They figure they can apply maximum pressure on them with a weak board. AQ preflop is big, but if you whiff its tough to call a big continuation bet.Was this just bad timing or a mistake on my part?
If you limp behind then bb is raising. Are you calling that raise? Probably not. Therefore your semi bluff scenario doesnt happen. Dont sweat it. I like the play. You just got caught in a semi cooler situation. You are picking this up pre more often than not.
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#4 Biff Goods

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Posted 07 April 2010 - 05:32 PM

yes...your M was actually like 5 (I don't know I didn't do the math)And this is way standard. Same thing happened to me the other day in a 1$ 4kman. I was just outside the money and some guy that had opened the last 8 straight pots opened again and I moved in with A10 with only about 15bb's left. He had AA...HA!I had to explain to my brother why it was the right move.
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#5 cashman

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 03:29 AM

View PostBiff Goods, on Wednesday, April 7th, 2010, 6:32 PM, said:

yes...your M was actually like 5 (I don't know I didn't do the math)And this is way standard. Same thing happened to me the other day in a 1$ 4kman. I was just outside the money and some guy that had opened the last 8 straight pots opened again and I moved in with A10 with only about 15bb's left. He had AA...HA!I had to explain to my brother why it was the right move.
Sorry about the miscalc on the Ms. I read Harrington's book a long time ago. Stupid question of the day, is Harrington's definition of an M one round of both the BB, SB and antes that you have to pay per trip around the table.The shove was definitely ABC poker, I was just trying to figure out if any other play would have been the better move. I think my only chance here may have been betting 3x the bb and if I don't get raised by the BB, maybe I can bluff may way through the hand after the weak flop. Of course hindsight is 20/20 as I had no way of knowing the BB was going to wake up w/such a big hand.

#6 SwolyswoND

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 04:45 AM

No, in this case ABC poker is the best move. B/f with 10 bbs left is suicide, as is opening and trying to bluff the flop with no stack left.
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#7 Agent 008

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 06:46 AM

You were in the small blind, sounds like the right move to me.

#8 Mercury69

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Posted 09 April 2010 - 01:11 PM

The hand is not bad, it's what put you in that position: Yuo say you doubled up and then got knocked down to 4300 after an hour and a hlf. What that says to me is that you weren't folding enough and you were trying to push too many marginal situations and not being patient. I realise the structure may not be very good, as is often the case, but making to many plays or trying to limp too many hands is going to cost you in the long run. One well placed bluff or semi-bluff is much better than limp/calling to see a flop that you most likely won't hit.So...look at the big picture and ask yourself how it came to be that you went from 10000 to 4300 in under an hour.
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