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#41 HighwayStar

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Posted 19 March 2010 - 08:44 PM

View PostBenRobbin, on Saturday, March 20th, 2010, 4:40 AM, said:

stake me on pokerstars?
You'd have to give me a very very good reason to do this....
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#42 BenRobbin

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Posted 19 March 2010 - 10:17 PM

Ive been grinding on the micros for a while. Have about 300 dollars on the site. Send me some winning strategies mainly about playing small pocket pairs in a 9 handed game. Postion and defending blinds with pocket pairs good or bad?

#43 spydur86

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Posted 19 March 2010 - 10:20 PM

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#44 nutzzcase

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Posted 20 March 2010 - 05:38 AM

View PostBenRobbin, on Friday, March 19th, 2010, 11:17 PM, said:

Ive been grinding on the micros for a while. Have about 300 dollars on the site. Send me some winning strategies mainly about playing small pocket pairs in a 9 handed game. Postion and defending blinds with pocket pairs good or bad?
why don't you go ask Lurbz? :club:

#45 HighwayStar

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Posted 20 March 2010 - 08:50 AM

View PostBenRobbin, on Saturday, March 20th, 2010, 6:17 AM, said:

Ive been grinding on the micros for a while. Have about 300 dollars on the site. Send me some winning strategies mainly about playing small pocket pairs in a 9 handed game. Postion and defending blinds with pocket pairs good or bad?
I never really understand why the most asked question by beginners is how to play small pocket pairs. They're pretty simple to play for the most part, just don't go set mining with too shallow of a stack (I'd say > 40 BBs). In fact if a good player raises UTG on the first hand of a 1500 chip tournament I think you should fold a lot of the small ones, 22-55, you simply haven't the implied odds - people aren't just gonna barrel off or stack off light too often if they're any good (unless they are lurbz). I'd also fold these hands in early position if it was folded to me, there is so little value in them early on. You can raise them profitably in later position and defending them in the Big Blind with >40 BBs is okay too. There is an argument for open limping them in early position in the first couple of levels but I don't do it myself. I doubt it's profitable by any significant amount.My recommendation would be to play a lot in stuff you are bankrolled for. This is the best way to learn.With $300 on Pokerstars you can just about try the $4.40 180 mans or if you want something faster, the $2.20 180 man turbos. Once you've proved yourself to be a winner you can then possibly look for backing to higher stuff. There is no way anyone sane would back someone with little experience and no proven results. When you have played a lot and have some decent results. Try parttimepoker or twoplustwo for backing purposes. PTP is probably the better option.With $300 you have enough to play 5c/10c NL and I'd recommend that over tournaments, it's a much more flexible way to learn. There has been a lot of activity in the NL Forum on FCP recently and there are lots of people playing similar stakes who will be willing to help.Link : http://www.fullconta...hp?showforum=16If you have a masochistic streak in you then you could tyr learning limit. Best place to learn is probably the challenge thread in general poker which is somewhere on page 2 or 3 at the moment.
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#46 donk4life

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Posted 20 March 2010 - 09:59 AM

Phil stop talking to your own joke account.

View Postakashenk, on 02 August 2012 - 06:44 AM, said:

I don't mind folding out hands we beat.

#47 BenRobbin

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Posted 20 March 2010 - 11:31 AM

Would you check raise top set in early postition when a guy has aces in late postion? Say the Board is 8c 3c 2h. You have 88Would you sandbag the whole way or check raise? Would you ever check raise and try to get as many chips out of him as possible, if he reraises allin and doesnt hit an ace. He wouldnt pay you if the flush comes cause he would fear you had it? Unless the person did have the flush draw do you call when your behind to hit the fullhouse?Main question is should you just not check raise at all because a good player would fold top pair top kicker or overpair to a check raise most of the time? And then your a losing player because you check raised and lost all that value?

#48 nutzzcase

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Posted 20 March 2010 - 11:52 AM

View PostBenRobbin, on Saturday, March 20th, 2010, 12:31 PM, said:

Would you check raise top set in early postition when a guy has aces in late postion? Say the Board is 8c 3c 2h. You have 88Would you sandbag the whole way or check raise? Would you ever check raise and try to get as many chips out of him as possible, if he reraises allin and doesnt hit an aces. He wouldnt pay you if the flush comes cause he would fear you had it? Unless the person did have the flush draw do you call when your behind to hit the fullhouse?Main question is should you just not check raise at all because a good player would fold top pair top kicker or overpair to a check raise most of the time? And then your a losing player because you check raised and lost all that value?
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#49 Eba12

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Posted 20 March 2010 - 12:37 PM

Woah this is a bit over the challenges I set myself :club: good luck tough! I'll come rail once in a while.

#50 babylondonks

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Posted 20 March 2010 - 03:13 PM

View PostBenRobbin, on Sunday, March 21st, 2010, 6:31 AM, said:

Would you check raise top set in early postition when a guy has aces in late postion? Say the Board is 8c 3c 2h. You have 88Would you sandbag the whole way or check raise? Would you ever check raise and try to get as many chips out of him as possible, if he reraises allin and doesnt hit an ace. He wouldnt pay you if the flush comes cause he would fear you had it? Unless the person did have the flush draw do you call when your behind to hit the fullhouse?Main question is should you just not check raise at all because a good player would fold top pair top kicker or overpair to a check raise most of the time? And then your a losing player because you check raised and lost all that value?
Yes

#51 HighwayStar

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Posted 20 March 2010 - 03:18 PM

View Postbabylondonks, on Saturday, March 20th, 2010, 11:13 PM, said:

Yes
^^
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#52 lurbz

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Posted 20 March 2010 - 04:41 PM

View PostHighwayStar, on Saturday, March 20th, 2010, 8:50 AM, said:

In fact if a good player raises UTG on the first hand of a 1500 chip tournament I think you should fold a lot of the small ones, 22-55, you simply haven't the implied odds - people aren't just gonna barrel off or stack off light too often if they're any good (unless they are lurbz). I'd also fold these hands in early position if it was folded to me, there is so little value in them early on.
Phil - 22-55 is setmine territory for many many many 45 and 180 regs.And yeah I have a reputation not only here but also among all regs as well of being a huge psycho. I've been told when I'm on my game I'm unbeatable but if I'm off I blow up hard.Enough about me. You really think folding 22-55 here is profitable instead of setmining? (10/20 and 15/30 only, and not beyond a 4x open) Could you elaborate a bit on why you don't?
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#53 HighwayStar

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Posted 20 March 2010 - 05:43 PM

View Postlurbz, on Sunday, March 21st, 2010, 12:41 AM, said:

Phil - 22-55 is setmine territory for many many many 45 and 180 regs.And yeah I have a reputation not only here but also among all regs as well of being a huge psycho. I've been told when I'm on my game I'm unbeatable but if I'm off I blow up hard.Enough about me. You really think folding 22-55 here is profitable instead of setmining? (10/20 and 15/30 only, and not beyond a 4x open) Could you elaborate a bit on why you don't?
I'd say against a decent reg the profitability of set mining with 22-55 75 BBs deep anywhere except out of the BB is minimal. Aganist unknowns/spazzy mediocre regs it's fine. I think you just get stacks in too little when you do flop a set to make much money in the long run. When you call in EP you're opening yourself up to getting raised behind and having to fold. It's probably fine in the CO/BTN/SB - in fact thinking about it more I usually do call them in these positions.I just did some very basic analysis on a heads up pot where you fold unless you flop a set and pick up a c-bet if you don't stack your opponent.I got, when you flop a set and stack someone0% of the time : the EV is-40 33% of the time : the EV is 0100% of the time: the EV is +81The EV of folding is 0 - except in the blinds - which is why I think it's an idea to set mine there.This is very rough and simple I really don't know how often you stack someone, it's not a number I can come up with. I'm guesssing vs a strongish range of a sensible player it might be around 35-40% so it is profitable, but barely. Once you get to the second level of a 1500 chip tournament for the EV to be 0 you're gonna have stack someone a lot more - I'm guessing over 50% probably more. There are other factors - overcallers (increasing implied odds) and people suqeezing (meaning you have to fold) which kinda balance each other out.What I;m saying is I think people should be folding these hands in earlier positions and calling them in the CO/BTN and in the blinds but not expecting to show a huge profit long term.
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#54 BenRobbin

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Posted 20 March 2010 - 05:57 PM

I do play them all every postion because noone can predict when a set is coming for sure. Now I started raising them all if im the first one in, but a ran into some situations today where I could of made a little more with a little more risk. JJ raise to 4x then reraised to three times by a guy who must have had aces? He had a full stack is it ever profitable to call a break him? With just me and him or with other callers, how many callers needed to make it profitable or maybe the odds dont really matter if you hit the set? I just made the sickiest fold of my life!

#55 babylondonks

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Posted 20 March 2010 - 06:00 PM

How much do antes change this? I'd imagine when people are raising to little more than 2x you will often be getting a decent price to setmine with antes involved too. Also you could setmine more profitably if you can take down the pot when you don't flop a set, by floating/checkraising some boards. However I think this is much harder to do in tournies than cash because there is implied EV in stacksizes and it may not be correct at all to do so.

#56 babylondonks

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Posted 20 March 2010 - 06:04 PM

View PostBenRobbin, on Sunday, March 21st, 2010, 12:57 PM, said:

I do play them all every postion because noone can predict when a set is coming for sure. Now I started raising them all if im the first one in, but a ran into some situations today where I could of made a little more with a little more risk. JJ raise to 4x then reraised to three times by a guy who must have had aces? He had a full stack is it ever profitable to call a break him? With just me and him or with other callers, how many callers needed to make it profitable or maybe the odds dont really matter if you hit the set?
Basically your chance to hit a set is around 1:8.5 if I recall correctly. However there are also times that your opponent flops a higher set than yours. So I'd suggest only calling if you get around 9:1 and you know with 100% confidence that you will get all your chips in the middle. Because obviously you can't know this, I think this number should inflate to 12:1 or more. So with your JJ example, if both you and your opponent have say $2000 stacks or more and you only need to call $150, it is probably profitable to call. Especially in position.

#57 HighwayStar

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Posted 20 March 2010 - 06:05 PM

View Postbabylondonks, on Sunday, March 21st, 2010, 2:00 AM, said:

How much do antes change this? I'd imagine when people are raising to little more than 2x you will often be getting a decent price to setmine with antes involved too. Also you could setmine more profitably if you can take down the pot when you don't flop a set, by floating/checkraising some boards. However I think this is much harder to do in tournies than cash because there is implied EV in stacksizes and it may not be correct at all to do so.
In the tournaments I'm talking about you are never ever going to be more than 30 BBs deep once the antes kick in and usually not much more than 10.In deeper stacked MTTs antes definitely factor in hugely. Also the ability to play for more than set value adds to the value. I'd still not flat much less than a 40 BB stack with 22-55I think trying to outplay people in the first 2 levels of a 180 or 45 man is completely futile, although plenty of people try.
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#58 HighwayStar

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Posted 20 March 2010 - 06:08 PM

View PostBenRobbin, on Sunday, March 21st, 2010, 1:57 AM, said:

I do play them all every postion because noone can predict when a set is coming for sure. Now I started raising them all if im the first one in, but a ran into some situations today where I could of made a little more with a little more risk. JJ raise to 4x then reraised to three times by a guy who must have had aces? He had a full stack is it ever profitable to call a break him? With just me and him or with other callers, how many callers needed to make it profitable or maybe the odds dont really matter if you hit the set?
I'm not 100% sure what you're saying but if I raise JJ and get 3 bet early on 30-50 BBs deep I'm just jamming a lot of the time, unless it's UTG vs UTG+1 or similar in which case I'm probably folding. Putting people on AA alone is silly. If I'm deeper I might flat, but I'm playing for a lot more than set value in that case.
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#59 babylondonks

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Posted 20 March 2010 - 06:13 PM

View PostHighwayStar, on Sunday, March 21st, 2010, 1:05 PM, said:

In the tournaments I'm talking about you are never ever going to be more than 30 BBs deep once the antes kick in and usually not much more than 10.In deeper stacked MTTs antes definitely factor in hugely. Also the ability to play for more than set value adds to the value. I'd still not flat much less than a 40 BB stack with 22-55I think trying to outplay people in the first 2 levels of a 180 or 45 man is completely futile, although plenty of people try.
Oh absolutely, didn't mean to imply differently really. Just more of a hypothetical/live tourney (where I believe stacks are often deeper with antes?) setting where you are deep enough to both setmine more correctly and also be able to play deeper postflop and so can generate some fold equity with checkraises and whatnot.

#60 lurbz

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Posted 20 March 2010 - 06:16 PM

View Postbabylondonks, on Saturday, March 20th, 2010, 6:00 PM, said:

How much do antes change this? I'd imagine when people are raising to little more than 2x you will often be getting a decent price to setmine with antes involved too. Also you could setmine more profitably if you can take down the pot when you don't flop a set, by floating/checkraising some boards. However I think this is much harder to do in tournies than cash because there is implied EV in stacksizes and it may not be correct at all to do so.
in turbos SNGs, you're never setmining past 25/50tourneys you can pull it off.
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