151 replies to this topic

[LadyGrey]

Hey people, I don't know if this area of the forum is still hopping or what, but help me out if you want.

I'm writing an essay on Bush's legacy. Now, I'm not one of those people that asks people to do their work for them. Believe me, I will spend many hours researching this topic using credible, published books and will not be basing my academic paper on the rants of posters on an online poker forum.

That being said, I'd be interested to get some opinions from people who are interested in politics, since it might help my own thought process along.

So the question is: "What will be the historical legacy of the Bush 43 administration?"

[LadyGrey]

My thinking so far:

Obviously my answer will mainly be related to the Iraq war and counter-terrorism stuff. I also need to cover domestic policy, and will certainly include the response to Katrina, and increased spending on education (NCLB etc). I don't know if 9/11 counts as foreign or domestic so I'll be asking my teacher that.


I'd like to hear viewpoints from different perspectives. The questions I'm keeping in mind are:

- What will Bush be remembered for?
- Which of his policies will prove to have a deep and lasting impact on American politics?
- Has he changed the style/power of the Executive in the long term, e.g. by expanding "inherent powers"?
- Will public opinion of him improve with time (for instance, as Reagan's has)? Or even sink lower?

[El Guapo]

My thinking so far:

Obviously my answer will mainly be related to the Iraq war and counter-terrorism stuff. I also need to cover domestic policy, and will certainly include the response to Katrina, and increased spending on education (NCLB etc). I don't know if 9/11 counts as foreign or domestic so I'll be asking my teacher that.


I'd like to hear viewpoints from different perspectives. The questions I'm keeping in mind are:

- What will Bush be remembered for?

9/11
tax cuts
katrina
Iraq/afghanistan
WMD's

- Which of his policies will prove to have a deep and lasting impact on American politics?

Patriot Act
NCLB

- Has he changed the style/power of the Executive in the long term, e.g. by expanding "inherent powers"?

Yes, he took many liberties that previous presidents have not, and has probably set a precedent.

- Will public opinion of him improve with time (for instance, as Reagan's has)? Or even sink lower?

It will improve, primarily because it can only go one way.

[hblask]

9/11
tax cuts
katrina
Iraq/afghanistan
WMD's

Patriot Act
NCLB

Yes, he took many liberties that previous presidents have not, and has probably set a precedent.

It will improve, primarily because it can only go one way.

I was going to write a response that gave opinions on the direction of opinion on these things, but this is definitely the fairest response, and this is an excellent starting point.

[LadyGrey]

I was going to write a response that gave opinions on the direction of opinion on these things, but this is definitely the fairest response, and this is an excellent starting point.

Opinions would be more helpful than a list of policies/events which I have already expressed my intention to include (see my second OP). Of course, the list is somewhat helpful in terms of prioritising and structuring, but I was hoping for more reasoning.


I just wrote this in a sentence: "recent resurgence in Ronald Reagan’s reputation" - try saying that 5 times fast. I will probably end up changing it since it seems kinda unproffessional, but I wonder if my teacher would find it amusing. There's no way they deduct marks for alliteration, right?

[vbnautilus]

There's no way they deduct marks for alliteration, right?

I always assign A's for assonance.

[JoeyJoJo]

I always assign A's for assonance.

But you better believe B's are based on...um, blank verse?


I lost it at the end there.

[El Guapo]

But you better believe B's are based on bigoted bias belonging to bloated bohemians

[hblask]

OK, I'll give it a quick shot:

9/11

tax cuts
katrina
Iraq/afghanistan
WMD's
Patriot Act
NCLB

Yes, he took many liberties that previous presidents have not, and has probably set a precedent.

It will improve, primarily because it can only go one way.

9/11 -- He will be remembered for handling it with strength and dignity, and saying the right things. After that, he will be remembered for declaring war on the wrong country and getting us involved in an endless quagmire.

Katrina -- I don't think this will matter for long, at least not in terms of Bush's legacy. Obama has been worse on a couple issues, he just didn't get the negative press. In the end, it will be remembered as bureaucratic ineptitude, not Bush's.

Iran/Afghanistan -- see above. Wrong war, wrong time, handled poorly.

WMDs -- see Iran/Afghanistan. They didn't exist, never did, and it was obvious at the time to most people.

PATRIOT Act -- hopefully this will be remembered as a dark moment in American history, like the Trail of Tears or the interrment of Japanese during WWII. I'm hoping people will wonder how people could be so stupid as to give up so much freedom for a symbolic gesture of protection.

NCLB -- I'm not sure people will care about this much in a decade or two. Hopefully it will be repealed quickly before it does much more damage, and it will be considered a minor blip on American history. If it's not repealed, or worse, expanded, he will eventually be blamed for a lot of bad educations.

I would add the Medicare Prescription Drug Benefit to the list, I guess, which will be remembered for speeding up the eventual bankruptcy of the Medicare program, which will eventually force it to be completely revised.

[El Guapo]

The tax cuts, next to his response to 9/11 is probably the best thing he did as president.

[CaneBrain]

The tax cuts, next to his response to 9/11 is probably the best thing he did as president.

if you mean his immediate response, ok. The more important, ultimate response went poorly.


Considering the skyrocketing deficits Bush rang up, I doubt he will be given a lot of credit for the success of his tax cuts.

[El Guapo]

if you mean his immediate response, ok. The more important, ultimate response went poorly.


Considering the skyrocketing deficits Bush rang up, I doubt he will be given a lot of credit for the success of his tax cuts.

We don't see things the same on that issue, for some reason you enjoy paying taxes.

[LadyGrey]

OK, I'll give it a quick shot:



9/11 -- He will be remembered for handling it with strength and dignity, and saying the right things. After that, he will be remembered for declaring war on the wrong country and getting us involved in an endless quagmire.

Katrina -- I don't think this will matter for long, at least not in terms of Bush's legacy. Obama has been worse on a couple issues, he just didn't get the negative press. In the end, it will be remembered as bureaucratic ineptitude, not Bush's.

Iran/Afghanistan -- see above. Wrong war, wrong time, handled poorly.

WMDs -- see Iran/Afghanistan. They didn't exist, never did, and it was obvious at the time to most people.

PATRIOT Act -- hopefully this will be remembered as a dark moment in American history, like the Trail of Tears or the interrment of Japanese during WWII. I'm hoping people will wonder how people could be so stupid as to give up so much freedom for a symbolic gesture of protection.

NCLB -- I'm not sure people will care about this much in a decade or two. Hopefully it will be repealed quickly before it does much more damage, and it will be considered a minor blip on American history. If it's not repealed, or worse, expanded, he will eventually be blamed for a lot of bad educations.

I would add the Medicare Prescription Drug Benefit to the list, I guess, which will be remembered for speeding up the eventual bankruptcy of the Medicare program, which will eventually force it to be completely revised.

That's more like it!

I don't consider WMDs a factor on their own, but only as an aspect of the Iraq war and perhaps Afghanistan (I don't know much about the deets of these wars yet, need to do some targeted research).

I think NCLB and the prescription stuff are also significant in a broader sense in that it is unusual for a Republican to pursue increased spending and intervention in health and education, and also for the way they contributed to the overall growth in bureaucracy and increased deficit during the Bush admin.

What do you guys think about the circumstances of his original election i.e. allegations of rigging and fraud etc? Will that be viewed more harshly in the future, or do you think people will forget it? I don't know if it's worth including, which is why I ask.

[vbnautilus]

What do you guys think about the circumstances of his original election i.e. allegations of rigging and fraud etc? Will that be viewed more harshly in the future, or do you think people will forget it? I don't know if it's worth including, which is why I ask.

I don't think people Blame bush for that. The sloppiness of the voting process is what left us open to all the wrangling by the political parties in the election endgame. I think the legacy of that whole situation is mistrust in vote counting, and hopefully voting reform, but I don't think any of that is held against Bush.

[LadyGrey]

I don't think people Blame bush for that. The sloppiness of the voting process is what left us open to all the wrangling by the political parties in the election endgame. I think the legacy of that whole situation is mistrust in vote counting, and hopefully voting reform, but I don't think any of that is held against Bush.

Good point, thanks for that. I guess I assumed he might be regarded as kind of an "accidental president", especially considering he had the lower popular vote (according to my memory....) but the fact that our current PM is unelected is probably confusing my thoughts on the matter. I don't think I will discuss his election, based on your insight.

[El Guapo]

Good point, thanks for that. I guess I assumed he might be regarded as kind of an "accidental president", especially considering he had the lower popular vote (according to my memory....) but the fact that our current PM is unelected is probably confusing my thoughts on the matter. I don't think I will discuss his election, based on your insight.

I think the voting counts just perpetuated a distrust in the political system. You had the Democrats whom wanted to disqualify a bunch of ballots because of "hanging chads" those little paper cut outs, and they also tried to stop getting about 30K (IIRC) over seas military votes counted because they got here late, but they were sent in before the election was over.

[CaneBrain]

We don't see things the same on that issue, for some reason you enjoy paying taxes.

Not half as much as you old people like hanging debt on us youngins with your tax cuts at war time (or to be fair your unrealistic health care plans).

[brvheart]

My thinking so far:

Obviously my answer will mainly be related to the Iraq war and counter-terrorism stuff. I also need to cover domestic policy, and will certainly include the response to Katrina, and increased spending on education (NCLB etc). I don't know if 9/11 counts as foreign or domestic so I'll be asking my teacher that.


I'd like to hear viewpoints from different perspectives. The questions I'm keeping in mind are:

- What will Bush be remembered for?
- Which of his policies will prove to have a deep and lasting impact on American politics?
- Has he changed the style/power of the Executive in the long term, e.g. by expanding "inherent powers"?
- Will public opinion of him improve with time (for instance, as Reagan's has)? Or even sink lower?

For Republicans, he will be remembered as VITAL in history because of two things:

John Roberts
Samuel Alito


Nothing else matters even a little bit...


That being said, many Republicans are very disappointed with his 8 years overall, especially 2004-2006 when he controlled congress as well and they didn't cut spending.

Republicans are for smaller federal government, and Bush 43 did the opposite of that.

[brvheart]

The tax cuts, next to his response to 9/11 is probably the best thing he did as president.

Are you nuts? SUPREME COURT... and it's not close.

The Supreme Court is basically the definition of legacy. Those guys won't retire for 30-40 years.

if you mean his immediate response, ok. The more important, ultimate response went poorly.


Considering the skyrocketing deficits Bush rang up, I doubt he will be given a lot of credit for the success of his tax cuts.

hahaha... oh Canebrain. Good one. He worst annual deficit was 490 billion. Obama is going to quadruple that this year. 2009's was 1.6 trillion.

[vbnautilus]

Are you nuts? SUPREME COURT... and it's not close.

The Supreme Court is basically the definition of legacy. Those guys won't retire for 30-40 years.

Mehhh, I'm not sure SC appointments really count. I mean they are basically randomly given to presidents when someone retires. If you like what Alito and Roberts do, that is their own legacy, not Bush's.