Dumb Play? $2/5 Live Hand

[shynepo3 0]

Ok, here's another one...lots of ppl at the table thought I did the right thing...but then again, i dont think so...not really sure. it's 10 handed, just didn't put in the foldsUTG - raises to $20 (she's a tight, a little too tight, aggressive player) ($175ish left)UTG + 1 calls $20 (no reads really, a bit aggressive) ($450)MP+2 calls $20 (loose aggressive, has bluffed off his stack twice now) ($350ish)Cutoff/hero calls $20 - 6 6 ($325 left)SB raises to $170UTG foldsUTG + 1 foldsMP + 2 foldsHero?SB/villain has been on a heater. There is a STRONG possibility he has two overs. His raise is a bit too big for AA,KK imo (based on how he played both these hands previously). I really don't think he would play 10/10 and under that way. He would probably call, since he knows UTG is tight. He and UTG seem to know each other well. So i think i'm left with either A/K or JJ/QQ...or AIR. He's won quite a few hands....so I wouldn't put it pass him to steal in this spot. I want to see what ppl think before I put what actually happened.

[fakepoo 0]

I'm folding here and I am a bit of a station. With $95 in the pot, making it $170 is not really too big to be AA or KK. It could certainly be TT-QQ and AK. I would highly doubt it is air unless you've seen him bluffing a lot. If it were a shove for $170 instead of a raise, you could consider calling because of the extra money in the pot. But, instead you would have to treat it as a shove for $345. If he had a smaller pair than yours (best case scenario) he would probably try to play the hand multi-way for set value in this spot so you are either crushed (against a bigger pair) or flipping (against overs).

[shynepo3 0]

I'm folding here and I am a bit of a station. With $95 in the pot, making it $170 is not really too big to be AA or KK. It could certainly be TT-QQ and AK. I would highly doubt it is air unless you've seen him bluffing a lot. If it were a shove for $170 instead of a raise, you could consider calling because of the extra money in the pot. But, instead you would have to treat it as a shove for $345. If he had a smaller pair than yours (best case scenario) he would probably try to play the hand multi-way for set value in this spot so you are either crushed (against a bigger pair) or flipping (against overs).

Yes, usually that is the case...i was basing this assumption on his past AA/KK hands. He was on fire...he must've got AA/KK at least 6 times minimum when i was there (and i was only there for about 3 hrs MAX).

[fakepoo 0]

Yes, usually that is the case...i was basing this assumption on his past AA/KK hands. He was on fire...he must've got AA/KK at least 6 times minimum when i was there (and i was only there for about 3 hrs MAX).

Still, I think TT/JJ/QQ are a big part of the range. Have you seen him make plays like this with air? I think you'll find yourself up against a bigger pair too often to make it profitable.

[mtdesmoines 2]

Actually the better play is probably to fold to the first raise because no one is deep enough to be set mined, unless you can get multiple all ins if you flop your set. Action on the three bet is not profitable in the long term because you're racing 30% of the time and dominated 70% IMHO.

[DM_FLOPPEDIT 0]

As played I`m def folding 66s to that raise in my past experiance2-5 youl usually see AK or something like 88-99

[rrumsey 0]

fold first pre, i hate to try and purely set mine

[BaseJester 1]

I think set mining for $20 is the right play. The PFR isn't deep enough by herself, but with position on two decent stacks I think this is a good call. I'd fold to the the 3-bet.

[trystero 0]

I can't imagine folding to the initial raise

[Biff Goods 0]

I really don't see any other option then folding to the 3bet. Calling is just plain awful and I don't think you have any fold equity even if he does have AK.

[XXEddie 0]

fold first pre, i hate to try and purely set mine

If it was likely going to be HU, maybe. Really though? You're gonna pass on a multi-way pot with 66 to just a $20 raise at 2/5?? No sir.

I really don't see any other option then folding to the 3bet. Calling is just plain awful and I don't think you have any fold equity even if he does have AK.

This. You don't have FE if he has 72o. You shove for something around 150 into a 450 pot...? Even if this is air, you aren't getting a fold. Also I think this is AA/KK a TON more than you are giving credit here. Remember villain is OOP if a flop comes so he may be trying to make sure not everybody calls...

[Acid_Knight 2]

The initial call is close. You're just not winning enough money often enough to make this profitable I think since set mining is one thing, but when you need to rely on multiple people putting $$ into the pot to get the right odds to set mine, it becomes a much dicier proposition.Fold to the 3bet every time.

[BaseJester 1]

The initial call is close. You're just not winning enough money often enough to make this profitable I think since set mining is one thing, but when you need to rely on multiple people putting $$ into the pot to get the right odds to set mine, it becomes a much dicier proposition.

The hero is getting 19:1 against one of the bigger stacks, including the money in the pot. I think that's more than sufficient. What odds are you looking for that requires multiple villains putting money in on the flop?

[mtdesmoines 2]

The hero is getting 19:1 against one of the bigger stacks, including the money in the pot. I think that's more than sufficient. What odds are you looking for that requires multiple villains putting money in on the flop?

First we have to flop our set. Second, it has to be the best set (i.e. no oversets) Third, we have to dodge straights and flushes (not easy multiway) Fourth, we have to avoid being counterfeited full. (happened to me three times this week)Fifth, we have to get paid by a hand we beat. (not as easy as it looks)There is a lot of discussion about ratios we need to set mine, and I think we've even had that discussion here somewhere. Profitability starts at a minimum stack ratio of 12:1, but I think there's a lot of people who think we need 18:1 HU to set mine. I think we need pretty good info on the villain; what will he pay with a hand he three bets? Our answer lies somewhere beyond the answer to that question.

[Acid_Knight 2]

First we have to flop our set. Second, it has to be the best set (i.e. no oversets) Third, we have to dodge straights and flushes (not easy multiway) Fourth, we have to avoid being counterfeited full. (happened to me three times this week)Fifth, we have to get paid by a hand we beat. (not as easy as it looks)There is a lot of discussion about ratios we need to set mine, and I think we've even had that discussion here somewhere. Profitability starts at a minimum stack ratio of 12:1, but I think there's a lot of people who think we need 18:1 HU to set mine. I think we need pretty good info on the villain; what will he pay with a hand he three bets? Our answer lies somewhere beyond the answer to that question.

Yeah, I agree with all of these points here. It's difficult to play this hand in a multiway pot becuase people just play so differently. With so many bodies in the pot, there are many many more cards that you have to dodge even if you are lucky enough to hit your set and you have to make sure that the guy who has hit a hand is one of the guys with the stack that's big enough to make your play profitable. I'm not trying to imply that the play preflop is horrible by any stretch, but it is thin and it's not as easy to make money here as it looks.

[BaseJester 1]

First we have to flop our set. Second, it has to be the best set (i.e. no oversets) Third, we have to dodge straights and flushes (not easy multiway) Fourth, we have to avoid being counterfeited full. (happened to me three times this week)Fifth, we have to get paid by a hand we beat. (not as easy as it looks)There is a lot of discussion about ratios we need to set mine, and I think we've even had that discussion here somewhere. Profitability starts at a minimum stack ratio of 12:1, but I think there's a lot of people who think we need 18:1 HU to set mine. I think we need pretty good info on the villain; what will he pay with a hand he three bets? Our answer lies somewhere beyond the answer to that question.

I was hoping to find something more in-depth, but here's a thread.