76 replies to this topic

[looshle]

Anyone with specific hands or questions for me can go in here. I'll try to keep up on this thread at least every other day.

[nutzbuster]

is tight right?

[looshle]

is tight right?

no!!

[FCP Bob]

I had a hand in the jumbo Sunday Million from a few weeks ago that had me questioning my play.

My reads: The player on my left is a total calling station who also will try and steal any pot that's checked to him.

The small blind is also a player who has called a ton and I've seen him call 3 bets preflop cold and then fold the flop.

The big blind who 3 bet hasn't done anything out of line or overly aggressive so far. I've been playing with all of these players since the start of the tournament.

My background is of course limit holdem and if this was a limit tourney or HORSE I would be confident in how to play it.

My basic read in this situation is that the small blind and the player to my left are for sure calling the 3 bet and will most likely call any 4 bet I make unless it's something huge like a shove and even then I can't be sure I won't be called by them. The play of the big blind here had me very concerned. I know players will often 3 bet of the big with a pretty wide range of hands with the callers in this hand but he has to know that none of the others are folding to his raise and then he's going to be playing the pot out of position.

So should I fold, call or raise here ?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, 215 Tournament, 100/200 Blinds (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

BB (t9412)
UTG (t7400)
Bob (UTG+1) (t14250)
Never Folds (MP1) (t6526)
MP2 (t11600)
MP3 (t4575)
CO (t13775)
Button (t11425)
Loves To See Flops (SB) (t7437)

Bob's M: 47.50

Preflop: Bob is UTG+1 with J , J
1 fold, Bob bets t600, Never Folds calls t600, 4 folds, Loves To See Flops calls t500, BB raises to t2200

Bob ?????

[looshle]

I had a hand in the jumbo Sunday Million from a few weeks ago that had me questioning my play.

My reads: The player on my left is a total calling station who also will try and steal any pot that's checked to him.

The small blind is also a player who has called a ton and I've seen him call 3 bets preflop cold and then fold the flop.

The big blind who 3 bet hasn't done anything out of line or overly aggressive so far. I've been playing with all of these players since the start of the tournament.

My background is of course limit holdem and if this was a limit tourney or HORSE I would be confident in how to play it.

My basic read in this situation is that the small blind and the player to my left are for sure calling the 3 bet and will most likely call any 4 bet I make unless it's something huge like a shove and even then I can't be sure I won't be called by them. The play of the big blind here had me very concerned. I know players will often 3 bet of the big with a pretty wide range of hands with the callers in this hand but he has to know that none of the others are folding to his raise and then he's going to be playing the pot out of position.

So should I fold, call or raise here ?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, 215 Tournament, 100/200 Blinds (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

BB (t9412)
UTG (t7400)
Bob (UTG+1) (t14250)
Never Folds (MP1) (t6526)
MP2 (t11600)
MP3 (t4575)
CO (t13775)
Button (t11425)
Loves To See Flops (SB) (t7437)

Bob's M: 47.50

Preflop: Bob is UTG+1 with J , J
1 fold, Bob bets t600, Never Folds calls t600, 4 folds, Loves To See Flops calls t500, BB raises to t2200

Bob ?????

This spot is pretty gross. Flatting is out of the question bc you are probably going to go 4 ways and can't profitably play if the BB leads out. You don't have odds to set mine either. I'd just fold and keep a 70bb stack with no antes against a minefield. If you shove, you have to shove 12k into 5600 which is going to be way too good a price for the BB's range here. He's going to be getting 2-1 when his range is going to be AA-TT/AK/AQ more weighted to AA/KK/QQ.

This isn't really going to be a squeeze often enough at all to put many weaker hands in his range and a lot of the satty winners/people taking shots are going to 3bet bigger with AK/AQ since they are out of position and really hate postflop play. Most randoms are going to be happy to either take the pot or commit themselves to getting it in pre.

There's so many good spots to get your money in, in this tourney that you can pass this up even if it is marginally +EV (Which i dont think it is)

[Sick Boy]

Very good idea.

[rrumsey]

i think most of the time we are drawing to 2 outs vs BB' range, not to mention we are going to be OOp versus at least one of the villains and unless we set up almost no flops are good or change anything really, i let it go. pretty gross but realisticly we are almost never in a coinflip here. Outside chance, but more likely then not we are kinda soul crushed, and this deep we should just try and hold onto some chips for a bit imo and find a decent spot or two.

[Tehtoe]

do i stink?

[looshle]

do i stink?

yes

[Viper_13]

nvr mind. didn't notice what forum this was in.

[Merby]

Hey Loosh, just do this:

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It worked for me.

[looshle]

Hey Loosh, just do this:



It worked for me.

ya havent ever had to do that to anyone but I'm taking your advice.

[SuperJon]

Villain was running 28/28, and had 3bet twice before out of the blinds (both times I folded).

Is this okay to 4bet/shove, or am I spewing?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, 2.2 Tournament, 250/500 Blinds 60 Ante (8 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP1 (t39081)
MP2 (t12805)
Hero (CO) (t31062)
Button (t59786)
SB (t82520)
BB (t29041)
UTG (t20829)
UTG+1 (t11274)

Hero's M: 25.25

Preflop: Hero is CO with Q , K
UTG calls t500, 3 folds, Hero bets t1300, Button calls t1300, SB raises to t6969, 2 folds, Hero raises to t31002 (All-In)

[slink]

Calling the all in seems bad, but I don't know if 28/28 makes it seem right. So my question is what does 28/28 mean?

[looshle]

Villain was running 28/28, and had 3bet twice before out of the blinds (both times I folded).

Is this okay to 4bet/shove, or am I spewing?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, 2.2 Tournament, 250/500 Blinds 60 Ante (8 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP1 (t39081)
MP2 (t12805)
Hero (CO) (t31062)
Button (t59786)
SB (t82520)
BB (t29041)
UTG (t20829)
UTG+1 (t11274)

Hero's M: 25.25

Preflop: Hero is CO with Q , K
UTG calls t500, 3 folds, Hero bets t1300, Button calls t1300, SB raises to t6969, 2 folds, Hero raises to t31002 (All-In)

I was going to say that if you were active enough, this is probably a good 4b spot. With a UTG limp though. I don't think its worth it really.

If it folded to you and the same action took place, 4b here is ok as long as theres been a 3b dynamic between you two. It's really player dependent though, bc if you've tanked on the last couple of times hes 3b you, and you folded, he's going to be less likely to 3bb here. If it's some random monkey though, I'd be happy to 4b here.

The UTG limp will stop him from making a play a fair amount though, so it's a pretty easy fold imo. UTG limps freeze people and you are raising a UTG limp which is MUCH stronger than just opening the CO.

[SuperJon]

I was going to say that if you were active enough, this is probably a good 4b spot. With a UTG limp though. I don't think its worth it really.

If it folded to you and the same action took place, 4b here is ok as long as theres been a 3b dynamic between you two. It's really player dependent though, bc if you've tanked on the last couple of times hes 3b you, and you folded, he's going to be less likely to 3bb here. If it's some random monkey though, I'd be happy to 4b here.

The UTG limp will stop him from making a play a fair amount though, so it's a pretty easy fold imo. UTG limps freeze people and you are raising a UTG limp which is MUCH stronger than just opening the CO.

thanks

[FCP Bob]

This spot is pretty gross. Flatting is out of the question bc you are probably going to go 4 ways and can't profitably play if the BB leads out. You don't have odds to set mine either. I'd just fold and keep a 70bb stack with no antes against a minefield. If you shove, you have to shove 12k into 5600 which is going to be way too good a price for the BB's range here. He's going to be getting 2-1 when his range is going to be AA-TT/AK/AQ more weighted to AA/KK/QQ.

This isn't really going to be a squeeze often enough at all to put many weaker hands in his range and a lot of the satty winners/people taking shots are going to 3bet bigger with AK/AQ since they are out of position and really hate postflop play. Most randoms are going to be happy to either take the pot or commit themselves to getting it in pre.

There's so many good spots to get your money in, in this tourney that you can pass this up even if it is marginally +EV (Which i dont think it is)

Thanks for your advice.

I did fold for just the reasons that you mentioned but since we all suffer from results oriented thinking at times when the flop came J hi I started to question myself and whether I was playing too tight.

After I folded as expected the 2 loose players both called. The flop can J rag rag and the BB 3 bettor checked and the idiot on my left moved all in and the other 2 players folded.

[looshle]

Thanks for your advice.

I did fold for just the reasons that you mentioned but since we all suffer from results oriented thinking at times when the flop came J hi I started to question myself and whether I was playing too tight.

After I folded as expected the 2 loose players both called. The flop can J rag rag and the BB 3 bettor checked and the idiot on my left moved all in and the other 2 players folded.

Fwiw I wouldnt be opening 3x really often in this tourney, ESP with no antes. It's fine if you want to do it with your bigger hands bc it is kinda deep early and its better to build the pot early so you can max value and people in the mill are rarely going to catch on that you are raising your premiums bigger.

Id suggest going to 2.5 as a standard and even smaller once the antes kick in. IT just gives you so much more room. If you run into hands you save more, and your steals are going to be cheaper and jsut as successful.

[I_fold08]

Fwiw I wouldnt be opening 3x really often in this tourney, ESP with no antes. It's fine if you want to do it with your bigger hands bc it is kinda deep early and its better to build the pot early so you can max value and people in the mill are rarely going to catch on that you are raising your premiums bigger.

Id suggest going to 2.5 as a standard and even smaller once the antes kick in. IT just gives you so much more room. If you run into hands you save more, and your steals are going to be cheaper and jsut as successful.

also lets you 4bet bluff which is my favorite play.

pretty cool thing that you are doing here looshle

[fakepoo]

looshle - I am not a full time poker player but when I play it is mostly Heads Up SNGs and just starting to play some FR cash. I try to play the Sunday Million on Stars every week because I feel like it has tremendous value but it is the only tournament I play. Do you know of other tourneys that have a ton of value like this?