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Value-raise W/ Nuts W/o Redraw In Multi-way Turn, Value Bet Nuts On River


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#1 MaxStPolish

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Posted 28 February 2010 - 11:22 AM

So the specs here are are that I take a flop with my button with a marginal holding with a limp. The flop checks around, allowing for my gutshot broadway straight to hit. We get a near PSB and a limp call out of MP and HJ. Normally I will flat these situations (heads up) since I have no redraw and my opponent may be on a freeroll. However, in this situation I felt it was reasonable to place a moderate raise into the pot to tax these two opponents as one of them at least is most likely on a pure FD, or holding the dummy end straight. My raise gets called by MP and HJ folds. The river bricks to make my hand the nuts....but provides four straight cards one gapped. MP checks. I feel I've exposed my hand already with my turn raise, so my mission now becomes extracting value. He obviously isn't checking the nuts to me here, so he's most like got a naked FD that is backing out regardless, or more likely the dummy straight, possibly with a missed FD as well. I elect to fire a 1/4 PSB here, thinking that's about the max that a dummy straight will pay off, even though my line is clearly repping the nuts. Sound step by step play? Any gaps or missed value possibly? Figured it couldn't hurt to inquire?PokerStars Game #40463843299: Tournament #244776238, $3.00+$0.30 USD Omaha Pot Limit - Level IV (25/50) - 2010/02/28 13:09:44 CT [2010/02/28 14:09:44 ET]Table '244776238 66' 9-max Seat #3 is the buttonSeat 1: un66 (2400 in chips) Seat 2: stl10x (4290 in chips) Seat 3: MaxStPolish (3260 in chips) Seat 4: broke again (1360 in chips) Seat 5: LoveRooster (2105 in chips) is sitting outSeat 6: Wulfy321 (3000 in chips) Seat 7: olddanger (2680 in chips) Seat 8: Dévil_Snacke (3060 in chips) Seat 9: 02bushido08 (3000 in chips) broke again: posts small blind 25LoveRooster: posts big blind 50*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to MaxStPolish [3d Js 7h Ad]broke again said, "nh"Wulfy321: folds stl10x said, "ty"olddanger: calls 50Dévil_Snacke: folds 02bushido08: calls 50un66: calls 50stl10x: calls 50MaxStPolish: calls 50broke again: calls 25LoveRooster: folds *** FLOP *** [Qc Ks 5h]broke again: checks olddanger: checks LoveRooster has returned02bushido08: checks un66: checks stl10x: checks MaxStPolish: checks *** TURN *** [Qc Ks 5h] [Tc]broke again: checks olddanger: checks 02bushido08: bets 250un66: calls 250stl10x: folds MaxStPolish: raises 650 to 900broke again: folds olddanger: folds 02bushido08: calls 650un66: folds *** RIVER *** [Qc Ks 5h Tc] [9h]02bushido08: checks MaxStPolish: bets 60002bushido08: calls 600*** SHOW DOWN ***MaxStPolish: shows [3d Js 7h Ad] (a straight, Ten to Ace)02bushido08: mucks hand MaxStPolish collected 3600 from pot*** SUMMARY ***Total pot 3600 | Rake 0 Board [Qc Ks 5h Tc 9h]Seat 1: un66 folded on the TurnSeat 2: stl10x folded on the TurnSeat 3: MaxStPolish (button) showed [3d Js 7h Ad] and won (3600) with a straight, Ten to AceSeat 4: broke again (small blind) folded on the TurnSeat 5: LoveRooster (big blind) folded before FlopSeat 6: Wulfy321 folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 7: olddanger folded on the TurnSeat 8: Dévil_Snacke folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 9: 02bushido08 mucked [9d Jh 5c Jc]

#2 rrumsey

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Posted 28 February 2010 - 06:09 PM

Poker Stars $3.00+$0.30 Pot Limit Omaha Hi Tournament - t25/t50 Blinds - 9 players - View hand 562126The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History ConverterMP2: t2400 M = 32CO: t4290 M = 57.20Hero (BTN): t3260 M = 43.47SB: t1360 M = 18.13BB: t2105 M = 28.07UTG: t3000 M = 40UTG+1: t2680 M = 35.73UTG+2: t3060 M = 40.80MP1: t3000 M = 40Pre Flop: (t75) Hero is BTN with 3 :club: J :4h 7 :3h A :ts1 fold, UTG+1 calls t50, 1 fold, MP1 calls t50, MP2 calls t50, CO calls t50, Hero calls t50, SB calls t25, 1 foldFlop: (t350) Q :D K :5c 5 :qh (6 players)SB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks, CO checks, Hero checksTurn: (t350) T :D (6 players)SB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 bets t250, MP2 calls t250, CO folds, Hero raises to t900, SB folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls t650, MP2 foldsRiver: (t2400) 9 :jh (2 players)MP1 checks, Hero bets t600, MP1 calls t600
Escalante in the small stakes grinder podcast in respect to my FPS " Bet your damn hands!!!" hahaha

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#3 rrumsey

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Posted 28 February 2010 - 06:12 PM

only possible missed value imo is maybe a stab on the flop, which may have been a little loose so i dont blame you for just checking, and i also bet 1k on the river, not horrible to suck bet it, but he calls a high % anyways, so get close to max value: 1-1.4k on the end
Escalante in the small stakes grinder podcast in respect to my FPS " Bet your damn hands!!!" hahaha

Download Spartan's podcast, Small Stakes Grinder! the link for iTunes is: (http://itunes.apple....der/id354114893)
Check out updates to the podcast in the "Members Blog" section of the forum (of pokerroad)...or else. Check it out guys it is a great podcast. Next Episode (Topic: Interview with Barry Greenstein Part 2): 04/19/10

#4 MaxStPolish

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Posted 01 March 2010 - 04:59 PM

View Postrrumsey, on Sunday, February 28th, 2010, 8:12 PM, said:

only possible missed value imo is maybe a stab on the flop, which may have been a little loose so i dont blame you for just checking, and i also bet 1k on the river, not horrible to suck bet it, but he calls a high % anyways, so get close to max value: 1-1.4k on the end
duder, it's not value if you bet into a small pot with squadoosh when you have 4 outs to the nuts. Betting here would be awful IMO.

#5 daveharvey

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Posted 03 March 2010 - 03:27 PM

i would find it very hard to bet in this spot

#6 MaxStPolish

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Posted 04 March 2010 - 04:46 PM

View Postdaveharvey, on Wednesday, March 3rd, 2010, 5:27 PM, said:

i would find it very hard to bet in this spot
What spot?God I pine for some omaha player(s) on here to help me get better.

#7 nutzzcase

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Posted 04 March 2010 - 06:38 PM

i would bet 1000-1200 on the river. When you raise the turn the only hands that are going to call are big draws and made hands. (and a lot of big draws would involve a jack + flush draw)EDIT: the lead on the turn makes it more likely that villains has a jack + flush draw

#8 MaxStPolish

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Posted 05 March 2010 - 04:02 PM

View Postnutzzcase, on Thursday, March 4th, 2010, 8:38 PM, said:

i would bet 1000-1200 on the river. When you raise the turn the only hands that are going to call are big draws and made hands. (and a lot of big draws would involve a jack + flush draw)EDIT: the lead on the turn makes it more likely that villains has a jack + flush draw
Good point on the edit.So we're okay with my thought process for the raise on the turn then?

#9 nutzzcase

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Posted 06 March 2010 - 07:07 AM

View PostMaxStPolish, on Friday, March 5th, 2010, 4:02 PM, said:

Good point on the edit.So we're okay with my thought process for the raise on the turn then?
turn is ok, you missed some value on the river it's all.EDIT: you don't really need a redraw here just to dodge the flush. (a set is very unlikely so you don't have to get scared if the board pairs on the river)




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