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#41 JoeyJoJo

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Posted 01 March 2010 - 01:57 PM

It's probable I don't understand what VB is getting at.
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#42 vbnautilus

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Posted 01 March 2010 - 02:09 PM

View PostJoeyJoJo, on Monday, March 1st, 2010, 1:42 PM, said:

Like knowing how many hairs are on someone's head? I think that was part of my point.
I meant premises that can't be falsified. If we start with the assumption of an omnipotent, omniscient being, then yes, everything that could possibly happen is without question consistent with that (pseudo)-theory and it can never be shown to be wrong.

#43 JoeyJoJo

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Posted 01 March 2010 - 02:17 PM

View Postvbnautilus, on Monday, March 1st, 2010, 2:09 PM, said:

I meant premises that can't be falsified. If we start with the assumption of an omnipotent, omniscient being, then yes, everything that could possibly happen is without question consistent with that (pseudo)-theory and it can never be shown to be wrong.
Which means that it's silly to say something like "God has better things to focus on," right?Are we agreeing or disagreeing?The usual example I give is the sports fan who complains about the player who gives credit to God because "God doesn't care about sports." It's a pointless argument to make because if the player has the starting point of there being a God, then you can't tell him God can't do something.
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#44 CaneBrain

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Posted 01 March 2010 - 02:24 PM

View PostJoeyJoJo, on Monday, March 1st, 2010, 5:17 PM, said:

Which means that it's silly to say something like "God has better things to focus on," right?Are we agreeing or disagreeing?The usual example I give is the sports fan who complains about the player who gives credit to God because "God doesn't care about sports." It's a pointless argument to make because if the player has the starting point of there being a God, then you can't tell him God can't do something.
but you CAN tell him that when he loses it's because God hates him.
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#45 Balloon guy

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Posted 01 March 2010 - 02:28 PM

View PostCaneBrain, on Monday, March 1st, 2010, 2:24 PM, said:

but you CAN tell him that when he loses it's because God hates him.
Not possible.Case in point: Olympic hockey game yesterdayEveryone knows God is an American
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#46 CaneBrain

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Posted 01 March 2010 - 02:40 PM

View PostBalloon guy, on Monday, March 1st, 2010, 5:28 PM, said:

Not possible.Case in point: Olympic hockey game yesterdayEveryone knows God is an American
Yeah, christian leaders can't even blame this one on homosexuality like 9/11. Canadians like the gays even more than us sinners.
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#47 Balloon guy

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Posted 01 March 2010 - 02:55 PM

View PostCaneBrain, on Monday, March 1st, 2010, 2:40 PM, said:

Yeah, christian leaders can't even blame this one on homosexuality like 9/11. Canadians like the gays even more than us sinners.
Maybe it's just that God, like the rest of the country, doesn't care enough about hockey to even get involved?
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#48 timwakefield

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Posted 01 March 2010 - 03:42 PM

99% of athletes thank God for giving them the ability to perform or whatever, not for winning the game for them. The 'Why-don't-you-blame-Jesus-when-you-lose-fallacy' is mildly humorous but is actually not a fallacy at all, as I just explained. Remember how the Saints' kicker pointed to the sky after he missed a field goal (I think he was on the Saints)? And it wasn't an accusatory point towards the sky like 'Dammit Jesus, that one's on you.' He apparently thanks God after every kick, just for blessing him with ability and health and whatever else. Regarding the 'God can do anything' discussion - the reason it sometimes strikes me as odd is because Christians often do anthropomorphize God in very specific ways, giving Him human emotions like anger and describing him as a very distinct, humanistic entity. If He is so all-knowing and all-powerful and all-encompassing, why is He plagued by the same emotional frailties that us, His children are?
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#49 JoeyJoJo

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Posted 01 March 2010 - 03:50 PM

View Posttimwakefield, on Monday, March 1st, 2010, 3:42 PM, said:

If He is so all-knowing and all-powerful and all-encompassing, why is He plagued by the same emotional frailties that us, His children are?
I think I've brought this up before concerning creation. Since God is, by definition, all-powerful and all-knowing, what's the point of creation? He knows he can do it and everything that will follow and it's not like he would have a sense of accomplishment from doing it, so that leaves us where? I cannot imagine an ominpotent, omniscient being having any reason to do anything.I think Balloony had an answer for this, but I don't remember it.
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#50 vbnautilus

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Posted 01 March 2010 - 04:45 PM

View PostJoeyJoJo, on Monday, March 1st, 2010, 2:17 PM, said:

Which means that it's silly to say something like "God has better things to focus on," right?Are we agreeing or disagreeing?The usual example I give is the sports fan who complains about the player who gives credit to God because "God doesn't care about sports." It's a pointless argument to make because if the player has the starting point of there being a God, then you can't tell him God can't do something.
Oh yeah, we agree on that point, I was jumping off from that to make the point that religion is an unfalsifiable theory.

#51 vbnautilus

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Posted 01 March 2010 - 04:46 PM

View PostJoeyJoJo, on Monday, March 1st, 2010, 3:50 PM, said:

I think I've brought this up before concerning creation. Since God is, by definition, all-powerful and all-knowing, what's the point of creation? He knows he can do it and everything that will follow and it's not like he would have a sense of accomplishment from doing it, so that leaves us where? I cannot imagine an ominpotent, omniscient being having any reason to do anything.I think Balloony had an answer for this, but I don't remember it.
See here I disagree. If you know how incredibly awesome having a little earth with people on it is going to be, why wouldn't you make one?Like, just knowing that I can make an excellent cake does nothing to dampen my motivation for making one.

#52 Balloon guy

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Posted 01 March 2010 - 04:56 PM

The Bible tells us about God, who He is, and what His plan for us is.And it uses language we can understand, you could even make the argument that it dumbs it down for us.After all, it's not like we can honestly imagine what it is like to be outside of time and space. Or to have the ability to create anything with a single word. Motivations aren't equal between a dog and a human, why do we think ours and God's should be relate-able, therefore to try to quantify God's intentions from our perspectives doesn't have a chance of being accurate.And when the Bible grants God human characteristics, it's more for us to have a picture of God, not for us to pigeonhole God.The Bible says no man can even look upon God, yet we want to say that we can judge God by using words like petty or vengeful and pretend that we are able to comprehend the majesty of the Creator of the Universe?Once you grant the notion that God exist, you leave out any ability to judge any of His actions of His choices.
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#53 SuitedAces21

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Posted 01 March 2010 - 07:19 PM

View Posttimwakefield, on Monday, March 1st, 2010, 7:42 PM, said:

99% of athletes thank God for giving them the ability to perform or whatever, not for winning the game for them. The 'Why-don't-you-blame-Jesus-when-you-lose-fallacy' is mildly humorous but is actually not a fallacy at all, as I just explained. Remember how the Saints' kicker pointed to the sky after he missed a field goal (I think he was on the Saints)? And it wasn't an accusatory point towards the sky like 'Dammit Jesus, that one's on you.' He apparently thanks God after every kick, just for blessing him with ability and health and whatever else.
99% huh? thats a nice stat you just pulled out of your ass. albert pujols is my favorite player. he points to the sky after his homeruns. he doesnt point after striking out. in fact, i've never seen that, from anyone.
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#54 Don Giovanni

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Posted 01 March 2010 - 07:37 PM

View Posttimwakefield, on Monday, March 1st, 2010, 3:42 PM, said:

He apparently thanks God after every kick, just for blessing him with ability and health and whatever else.
what a retard

#55 speedz99

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Posted 01 March 2010 - 07:38 PM

View PostBalloon guy, on Monday, March 1st, 2010, 1:05 PM, said:

Or in Hippy-speak;Dude, like, if you had some good weed and like some dude was all "Let's smoke it now" and you were all "Dude' then he would be like trying to bogart your weed.So then if that dude then tried to like say you didn't have any weed, you would be like "Dude" and everyone would be you know, like, "Whatever dude".So like, don't be "Whatever" man.
Heh.

View PostBalloon guy, on Monday, March 1st, 2010, 3:55 PM, said:

Maybe it's just that God, like the rest of the country, doesn't care enough about hockey to even get involved?
Also, heh.

View PostBalloon guy, on Monday, March 1st, 2010, 5:56 PM, said:

And when the Bible grants God human characteristics, it's more for us to have a picture of God, not for us to pigeonhole God.
So the bible is all truth, nothing metaphorical or embelished to make certain points...except for the anthropomorphized picture of God himself, the driving force behing all existance. Riiiiight.

View PostBalloon guy, on Monday, March 1st, 2010, 5:56 PM, said:

Once you grant the notion that God exist, you leave out any ability to judge any of His actions of His choices.
True. If you grant the notion of your version of god. Which most of us don't. Which is why there seems to be confusion.
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#56 Southern Buddhist

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Posted 01 March 2010 - 08:01 PM

What about when God himself attributes human flaws to himself?

Quote

for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;


#57 Syntonic

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Posted 01 March 2010 - 10:56 PM

View PostBalloon guy, on Monday, March 1st, 2010, 5:56 PM, said:

The Bible tells us about God, who He is, and what His plan for us is.And it uses language we can understand, you could even make the argument that it dumbs it down for us.
Language we can understand? Please, tell me, how do we understand the definition of omnipotence?
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#58 vbnautilus

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Posted 01 March 2010 - 11:24 PM

View PostBalloon guy, on Monday, March 1st, 2010, 4:56 PM, said:

And it uses language we can understand, you could even make the argument that it dumbs it down for us.
Even a 95 IQ could understand it!

#59 SlapStick

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Posted 02 March 2010 - 12:13 AM

That link would be great to send to my atheist friends if they weren't all cheating on their girlfriends.
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#60 crowTrobot

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Posted 02 March 2010 - 06:58 AM

View Postvbnautilus, on Monday, March 1st, 2010, 4:45 PM, said:

Oh yeah, we agree on that point, I was jumping off from that to make the point that religion is an unfalsifiable theory.
not disagreeing with you but i wouldn't use the word religion. the bare hypothesis of an undetectable god would be unfalsifiable, but human religionsare falsifiable for other reasons.




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