93 replies to this topic

[Smasharoo]

I was thinking about this the other day when I had a really ungodly lucky run in an online $25 max buy in game that I was killing time in while waiting for a tournament to start.I got all in PF on the second hand with AA and happened to get called by two people with KK. A fluke, obviously. One in fifty thousand kind of thing or whatever and I tripple up.Few hands later I flop quad 6s. Small bet on the flop which I just call, followed by a big bet on the turn which I raise and I end up getting all in with someone who caught a J on the turn holding JJ for a full house.So now I'm up to $150. long story short, I keep getting very unlikely lucky hands against second best hands and draw out a few times when I'm behind and after about 5 hours I'm up to $270. Around then, I notice that everyone else with largish stacks has left and been replaces by new buy ins at $25.How do you play in a cash game where people can get up and leave any-time with a monster stack. Obviously it's not a bad thing, but I don't play NL enough to be in a situation where I'm so ludicrously outchipping everyone else to this degree to really have thought much about it in a cash game.I adopted the same sort of theory I do in tournaments, opening a lot of pots for $2, putting people all in a lot, willing to double them up if I get another shot at their whole stack later on.I don't know if that's correct though. It worked out ok, but I'm curious how other people play it.

[JFarrell20]

This is obvious... especially for a self-proclaimed genius like yourself. CASH OUT AND COME BACK WITH $25.Sure, with $270 compared to others' $25, you can be the bully, but why bother? You could end up losing all of it to someone that only posted $25 to get into the room! Get it? The dude with $25 is getting almost 11/1 odds on his money. He can end up anywhere from -$25 to +$295 (This example would be for heads up obviously but I think this clarifies it). Cash out up $245 and go play your tourney or come back with $25 and work your way back up there. Remember how lucky you got to get to 270? Those others can get lucky too and take it all away. Thats why casino's have minimums to bring to the table. They dont want people showing up with $20 in a 3/6/12 game and ending up with $800 at the end of the day.

[Smasharoo]

This is obvious... especially for a self-proclaimed genius like yourself. CASH OUT AND COME BACK WITH $25. Woah. Are you on drugs?Why would I want to give up a massive advantage of having a huge stack?I was trying to pry my eyes open with toothpick after about 12 hours to avoid cashing out when I had such a huge advantage.

[Smasharoo]

The dude with $25 is getting almost 11/1 odds on his money.What?You really need to do some learnin on NL cash game theory.If I could buy into a $25 max buy in game with $1000 and no one else could I'd do it every single time. Wouldn't you?

[troll]

I would use the big stack to put pressure on the small stacks. The only disadvantage to having only new people at the table is that you could start chasing hands figuring that they will have to double up multiple times to be a threat to you

[Smasharoo]

The only disadvantage to having only new people at the table is that you could start chasing hands figuring that they will have to double up multiple times to be a threat to youReally only a disadvantage if they leave.I know what you mean, though.

[NYSPOKER]

Just keep applying the pressure. Loose pre-flop, tight post. Make them spend more money pre-flop and then battle eachother, if you didn't make a hand.In this situation, suited connectors from late position work great for catching monsters (especially 1&2 gaps). When you catch one, there is sure to be a Sherriff in the bunch willing to call off all his chips to catch you bluffing.

[JFarrell20]

Smasharoo said:

This is obvious... especially for a self-proclaimed genius like yourself. CASH OUT AND COME BACK WITH $25.  Woah.  Are you on drugs?Why would I want to give up a massive advantage of having a huge stack?I was trying to pry my eyes open with toothpick after about 12 hours to avoid cashing out when I had such a huge advantage.

Well maybe this is just my theory. I like to get out while I'm ahead, then start back from the beginning. I'm not one of these degenerate gamblers that thinks his luck will never run out. Cash out while you are ahead and grind your way back from $25. Jeez, good enoough is never good enough for you degenerates!What I mean by 11/1 odds is that you have 11 times $25. So one of these guys could enter with only $25 and end up taking all your money (because knowing you, you would not quit until you hit $0)I do understand your point about being able to apply pressure, but how much can you apply? If you keep raising pre-flop they will move all in on you and turn it around.If you are gonna come on here and plea for help in your game, you should be open to everyones suggestions. Jeez. Calm down pot-head.

[Smasharoo]

Well maybe this is just my theory. I like to get out while I'm ahead, then start back from the beginning. I'm not one of these degenerate gamblers that thinks his luck will never run out. Cash out while you are ahead and grind your way back from $25. Jeez, good enoough is never good enough for you degenerates!I've seen people cash out and rebuy on occasion. They all, every singe lone, sucked and were amazed to be ahead.Cashing out of a game that I'm cleraly the best player in is just dumb. I want to be certain that if some weaker player doubles up a few times I still have him covered.What I mean by 11/1 odds is that you have 11 times $25. So one of these guys could enter with only $25 and end up taking all your money (because knowing you, you would not quit until you hit $0)I quit after about 14 hours at $525.Money flows to the bigger stack in NL ring games most of the time. The fact that you don't seem to understand the great advatage to having a much larger stack than everyone else is bad for you.I do understand your point about being able to apply pressure, but how much can you apply? If you keep raising pre-flop they will move all in on you and turn it around.So?This only matters if they leave immediately after they double up. What normally happens, is idiots like you think "Hey, I can double up 9 times against this guy!!" or whatevevr and get all in against a big stack three or four time, win the the first three, then lose all of it back.It becomes a vicous cycle. I only have to win an all in with them ONCE if they're playing that agressively, to take all their money. They have to win against me multiple times.Do you understand the odds here?If you are gonna come on here and plea for help in your game, you should be open to everyones suggestions. Jeez. Calm down pot-head.I was just curious what other people did. I was just a little surprised to see a giant quivering pussy response like "cash out!!! It's gambling, y0u're doomed to loose!!!"

[JFarrell20]

Smasharoo said:

[b]Cashing out of a game that I'm cleraly the best player in is just dumb.  I want to be certain that if some weaker player doubles up a few times I still have him covered.

If you cashed out after 14 hours at $525 then why the PHUCK are you on here asking for advice!?!? Obviously staying in works for you, moron. So don't come on here asking for advice just to say "Well this is what I did! And it WORKED so all of you with your opinions go PHUCK yourselves!"Either you are lying about how much you left ahead or you are so stupid that you think winning $500 is a bad thing and you must not have done something right so you came on here and asked for advice. And by the way... you say "cashing out in a game that Im clearly the best player in is dumb"... well you said yourself that new players kept coming in, so how can you continuously be sure that you are the best player when new ones keep coming at you???"You do not know what logic is, do you?

[Smasharoo]

And by the way... you say "cashing out in a game that Im clearly the best player in is dumb"... well you said yourself that new players kept coming in, so how can you continuously be sure that you are the best player when new ones keep coming at you???"They were all named JFarrell20, it was weird.I knew I wasn't leaving an opportunity get free money like that, though!

[JFarrell20]

Smasharoo said:

[b]They were all named JFarrell20, it was weird.I knew I wasn't leaving an opportunity get free money like that, though!

Why dont you bring your 100 grand to the table with me. I will bring $500 and bust you before we're through. Maybe then you will get my point.

[JPWydman]

I would observe the newest players, while maintaining my aggression, and find the weakest ones, and aggressively go after thier chips with solid play. That kind of chip lead in a NL game is meant to be used to your advantage, and if you're not taking advantage of all of your opportunities you're foolish. You did a great job it seems. And for some reason, that guy just doesnt like you much...Did you take his bankroll or something = )

[JaysonWeber]

I dont know why you would cash out... You have 10x there chips... do you realize the image you have there? Thats respect. I will be putting up a second installment of "Question of the month" and it actually has something to do with your question here, about how to play that. The fact is its very hard for anyone at the table to challenge you, play correctly and its only in your favor.. Think of it this way, There is a fight you're involved in.. You have a bat and everyone else is only allowed to use there fists... I sir, will take the bat.

[Smasharoo]

Why dont you bring your 100 grand to the table with me. I will bring $500 and bust you before we're through. Maybe then you will get my point.Sure, so long as neither of us can leave untill the other guy is busted.I'm going to push all in every flop. What are you going to do?

[JPWydman]

Smasharoo said:

Why dont you bring your 100 grand to the table with me. I will bring $500 and bust you before we're through. Maybe then you will get my point.Sure, so long as neither of us can leave untill the other guy is busted.I'm going to push all in every flop.  What are you going to do?

PERFECT Example!!!! Force him to play or let him get bled to death. Big stack = ADVANTAGE.

[JFarrell20]

OK 100 grand to 500 is exaggerated (unless the BB was only at say...10 dollars for the first half-hour or so which would buy me time to pick up a couple callable all in hands) but anyway...Are you really going to use that same strategy against 8 other players with $25? You cant move all in every time for $25 that would be ridiculous. Besides the novelty would wear off and people would start calling with 2-2 K 9... etc. My beef with Smasharoo is this: Why did you come on here asking for advice if you are going to shoot it all down? You should be more open minded. You had three options: Cash out, stay in-aggressive, or stay in-conservative. If Cashing out is straight out the window then your real question should have been: Should I keep playing aggressive, or tighten up??? Otherwise don't hate on me because I'm offering an example of cashing out. And besides if you really finished ahead by that much, why are you asking for advice??? You claim to have made a $39/hour profit at a $25 max table! Why ask for advice??? Either you are lying about this or... I don't know what. You are either lying or you got lucky. B/c if you didn't get lucky you wouldn't be asking for advice. A lot of stuff you have said on here is inconsistent Smasharoo. Right about now you've got trust equal to that of Layne Flack.

[Slayre]

Quote

How do you play in a cash game where people can get up and leave any-time with a monster stack. Obviously it's not a bad thing, but I don't play NL enough to be in a situation where I'm so ludicrously outchipping everyone else to this degree to really have thought much about it in a cash game.

Smash, if you call me a name for posting this, I'll curse you, and children will cry when you walk by them...anyway, you said, yourself, and before the guy your being mean to, for no reason, that cashing out is not a bad thing... I put it up there in quotes, so no one would would have to scroll back...What I don't understand is why you didn't move up to a higher limit table, for the chance to get paid even more... if you had a constant influx of people willing to go agaisnt such a player with such a huge and obvious advantage, then wow.. most places I play ,the players will leave if someone gets too much of a chip lead, because it becomes pointless to go up agaisnt someone that can bully you every hand...When I dbl or trip up on a $25 dollar table, the rare times it happens, I don't necesarily cash out, but I will get up and go to a different table and start again... Would be nice tho, to have so many new people coming to the table and giving me money, like they did for you......

[Wilderness]

Well, I don't think he was asking for advice on what to do with all that money, he was asking how he should *play* with that kind of a stack so cashing out isn't really an option.He didn't claim to be a master poker player, he mentioned how lucky he was, hit AA against two KK, flopped quads to beat a boat, etc etc. I think anyone who builds up that huge of a stack, in that time, obviously hit a good run of cards.I think you just have to keep playing aggressive, raising a lot, forcing the smaller stacks to make decisions. I don't think you should cash out and buy back in, I see no possible reason to give up a big stack advantage. Why would you make it harder for yourself to make money? Always take any edge you have, and a very large stack relative to the table is a great advantage.

[ahosang]

Keep the stack. Use the stack as a sharp and accurate weapon to fend off bad drawers on the flop. Play tight, not loose. Of course you let pots build when you're slow-playing a strong hand, or drawing yourself. But it's the ability to decide when you are strong, but with a reasonable opponent to put them to the sword. He's drawing to you - all-in, he's probably got top pair too(but I've got a great kicker) - all-in. I wouldn't bluff too much (like all mouth and no trousers). You must have SOMETHING to back it up. Otherwise, you'll leak too much. If you can get genuinely good cards, you'll be surprised at how you may get callers on the net who will think you're just bluffing with your stack, and will call just to keep you honest. That's why no need to be loose. Maybe a little loose pre-flop in terms of starters, but not in terms of dearness - I would generally suggest a conservative, limit-hold'em starting requirement(in terms of dearness of different hands) pre-flop, with the uber-aggressive, no-limit hold'em betting tactics post-flop.