Caucus Night

[hblask 1]

So tonight was caucus night in MN, and the paper has been saying MN has a great system, where individuals really can make a difference at a caucus. So I decided to show up at the Republican one. Now, I'm not a Republican, but Obama is making everyone feel like one.The first thing I learned is there is no enthusiasm for politics at the local level. Hardly anyone showed up. Anyone who wanted to be a delegate to the next level could do it.The next thing I learned is how much I hate much of the Republican platform. I read it and just kept getting madder and madder. Basically, their platform is "we're for small government, except when we're not, then we're for big government." It was so frustrating. (They want to ban all gambling, including the lottery?!?! WTF????) Now, maybe if I felt like getting involved and could motivate people, I could start to change stuff, but I have a feeling it would be a lot of work for a small gains.The most interesting thing I learned was that an individual can make a huge difference at the state level. They said that if a state representative gets three calls on an issue they wonder why everyone is so riled up. So they said stop by the capitol anytime and you can get an audience and they will listen to your concerns.Overall, a frustrating, boring time. I won't be doing that again.

[hblask 1]

One other thing they said was interesting: election judges make a big difference. Democrats in this state are really good at getting election judges out, and it probably got Al Franken elected. There were LOTS of precincts with voting irregularities favoring Democrats, but since the R's can't get anyone to be an election judge, the results stood.

[CaneBrain 97]

The next thing I learned is how much I hate much of the Republican platform. I read it and just kept getting madder and madder. Basically, their platform is "we're for small government, except when we're not, then we're for big government." It was so frustrating. (They want to ban all gambling, including the lottery?!?! WTF????)

Um, yeah. The GOP's "platform" is basically one big series of contradictions. (We will do anything to protect America----except let gays help!; We love small government----until you want to play internet poker or smoke some pot quietly or marry a member of the same sex; we love fiscal responsibility----we just totally space about it every time we get in charge!; we're pro-life....except for the death penalty and unwavering support for things that have to sole purpose of causing injury and death guns!)And as much as you may not like Obama, he is a Democrat so he cannot get his more out there ideas done. Republicans will have far less problems getting their worst ideas done.The Democrats: Embrace Our Political Ineptitude.

[Naked_Cowboy 0]

Um, yeah. The GOP's "platform" is basically one big series of contradictions. (We will do anything to protect America----except let gays help!; We love small government----until you want to play internet poker or smoke some pot quietly or marry a member of the same sex; we love fiscal responsibility----we just totally space about it every time we get in charge!; we're pro-life....except for the death penalty and unwavering support for things that have to sole purpose of causing injury and death guns!)And as much as you may not like Obama, he is a Democrat so he cannot get his more out there ideas done. Republicans will have far less problems getting their worst ideas done.The Democrats: Embrace Our Political Ineptitude.

I have quite a few issues with the official republican platform, but i find the bolded far less ridiculous than people who are for abortions (especially late term or partial birth) but against the death penalty for capital crimes.

[Balloon guy 158]

Also the notion that small government must mean that the government doesn't enforce laws is just being argumentative for arguments sake.I am for a smaller government, meaning I don't want the US government to be the largest employer in the world, and I don't want bureaucracies to be created for their own sake.Why does that mean I must also want the government to have no say in things that the community feels are important?Does a small government mean that there are no enforcements of pornography laws? or does it mean there are no pornography laws?Equating small government with libertarianism is just hijacking the phrase, not proving a point.

[FCP Bob 1,323]

I have quite a few issues with the official republican platform, but i find the bolded far less ridiculous than people who are for abortions (especially late term or partial birth) but against the death penalty for capital crimes.

The main reason that I'm against the Death Penalty has nothing to do with me being against killing people. My main reasons are that far too many mistakes are made with innocent people being found guilty and also that it's less expensive to jail somebody for life.There are some people who deserve to die but I don't trust the Justice systems that we have to only do it to those people so I would rather that nobody be put to death.

[Balloon guy 158]

The main reason that I'm against the Death Penalty has nothing to do with me being against killing people. My main reasons are that far too many mistakes are made with innocent people being found guilty and also that it's less expensive to jail somebody for life.There are some people who deserve to die but I don't trust the Justice systems that we have to only do it to those people so I would rather that nobody be put to death.

I can understand this side of the issue.

[Naked_Cowboy 0]

The main reason that I'm against the Death Penalty has nothing to do with me being against killing people. My main reasons are that far too many mistakes are made with innocent people being found guilty and also that it's less expensive to jail somebody for life.There are some people who deserve to die but I don't trust the Justice systems that we have to only do it to those people so I would rather that nobody be put to death.

We need to move to this system then obviously:Seriously though, I absolutely see your side of the issue. I think that we will inevitably get to the point with DNA evidence where that is almost an impossibility. I'm more in the camp of: super against abortion and not against the death penalty where it's actually proven beyond any shadow of a doubt (DNA, etc) that someone actually committed the crimes they're accused of.

[CaneBrain 97]

Why does that mean I must also want the government to have no say in things that the community feels are important?

because, in this scenario, the NATIONAL government is picking things that only SOME COMMUNITIES feel are important to impose on EVERYONE.Also, Bob has nail/head the issue of the Death Penalty.

[Balloon guy 158]

because, in this scenario, the NATIONAL government is picking things that only SOME COMMUNITIES feel are important to impose on EVERYONE.Also, Bob has nail/head the issue of the Death Penalty.

In most every state including California, the gay marriage ban has been upheld every time it's on the ballot. So unless when you say SOME COMMUNITIES you mean most of this country, then I don't see what you are trying to say.

[LongLiveYorke 38]

Overall, a frustrating, boring time. I won't be doing that again.

This is probably the conclusion that will be reached when all but the most self-absorbed, power hungry, and generally odd people dabble in politics.

[JoeyJoJo 20]

(They want to ban all gambling, including the lottery?!?! WTF????)

I could get behind a lottery ban.

[CaneBrain 97]

In most every state including California, the gay marriage ban has been upheld every time it's on the ballot. So unless when you say SOME COMMUNITIES you mean most of this country, then I don't see what you are trying to say.

actually I believe the # of states that approved gay marriage is currently between 10-13. Also, there are more issues besides gay marriage of course. Prescription marijuana is now legal in 13 states....Also the gay marriage ban in California won 52% to 48%. So if you when you so communities you mean a tiny, tiny majority of people then that makes sense.

[Balloon guy 158]

actually I believe the # of states that approved gay marriage is currently between 10-13. Also, there are more issues besides gay marriage of course. Prescription marijuana is now legal in 13 states....Also the gay marriage ban in California won 52% to 48%. So if you when you so communities you mean a tiny, tiny majority of people then that makes sense.

I am missing your point.You implied that it was a small community imposing their will on the masses. Then your above clearly shows that it is the minority that is in favor of something and you are implying that this proves your point.I guess I am unsure how you define the words majority and minority...And medical maryjuanda..is that the same as legalizing all maryjuanda? Or is this another reclassification of word meanings to allow you to declare victory?You should post in the religion section more, you would fit right in with the evolutionist

[CaneBrain 97]

Seriously though, I absolutely see your side of the issue. I think that we will inevitably get to the point with DNA evidence where that is almost an impossibility. I'm more in the camp of: super against abortion and not against the death penalty where it's actually proven beyond any shadow of a doubt (DNA, etc) that someone actually committed the crimes they're accused of.

Ok a follow up then.If you are super against abortion, do you also support the conservative platform of opposing non-abstinence only sex education and opposing the distribution of condoms in high schools?Because that's another contradiction that drives me crazy. If you do not like abortion, why do you support policies that increase unwanted pregnancies?

[CaneBrain 97]

I am missing your point.You implied that it was a small community imposing their will on the masses. Then your above clearly shows that it is the minority that is in favor of something and you are implying that this proves your point.I guess I am unsure how you define the words majority and minority...And medical maryjuanda..is that the same as legalizing all maryjuanda? Or is this another reclassification of word meanings to allow you to declare victory?You should post in the religion section more, you would fit right in with the evolutionist

No, I am worried about 55% of people imposing their views on 45% and vice versa. I mean it is some communities imposing their beliefs on some communities. Because most things like gay marriage and abortion come out about 55-45. Same with legalization of pot too I think.

[JoeyJoJo 20]

Because that's another contradiction that drives me crazy. If you do not like abortion, why do you support policies that increase unwanted pregnancies?

I wouldn't call it a contradiction, so much as it's just impractical.Surely you would agree that abstinence would decrease pregnancies.

[CaneBrain 97]

I wouldn't call it a contradiction, so much as it's just impractical.Surely you would agree that abstinence would decrease pregnancies.

In theory, yes. Of course, surely anyone who has been to high school would agree that expecting high school kids to practice abstinence is about as realistic as asking the sun to stop rising in the East.

[Balloon guy 158]

No, I am worried about 55% of people imposing their views on 45% and vice versa. I mean it is some communities imposing their beliefs on some communities. Because most things like gay marriage and abortion come out about 55-45. Same with legalization of pot too I think.

So you want the minority view to win because if it's close...what is your point here?I mean besides you want the things you want to be legal regardless of how the rest of the country feels?

[Balloon guy 158]

In theory, yes. Of course, surely anyone who has been to high school would agree that expecting high school kids to practice abstinence is about as realistic as asking the sun to stop rising in the East.

Again, a nice belief not founded in realityThe most liberal site I could find to remove the 'consider the source' dodge

A study of middle-school students that found for the first time that abstinence-only education helped to delay their sexual initiation is already beginning to shake up the longstanding debate over how best to prevent teenage pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases.“This is a rigorous study that means we can now say that it’s possible for an abstinence-only intervention to be effective,” Dr. John B. Jemmott III, the University of Pennsylvania professor who led the study, said Tuesday, hours after results of the study were released. “That’s important, because for some populations, abstinence is the only acceptable message.”In Dr. Jemmott’s research, only about a third of the students who participated in a weekend abstinence-only class started having sex within the next 24 months, compared with about half who were randomly assigned instead to general health information classes, or classes teaching only safer sex. Among those assigned to comprehensive sex-education classes, covering both abstinence and safer sex, about 42 percent began having sex.

[CaneBrain 97]

So you want the minority view to win because if it's close...what is your point here?I mean besides you want the things you want to be legal regardless of how the rest of the country feels?

No, the point is the minority in the gay marriage debate wants inclusion not exclusion. The bar should have to be much higher than 55% to start outlawing things. With current abortion rules, you can choose. Conservative social ideas are about outlawing this or that or banning this or that. I dont feel 55% should be allowed to outlaw or ban things that 45% of people want. The 45% are just trying to provide choices.Thats the biggest difference. It's a hard idea to explain while also trying to play poker. Sorry.

[Naked_Cowboy 0]

In theory, yes. Of course, surely anyone who has been to high school would agree that expecting high school kids to practice abstinence is about as realistic as asking the sun to stop rising in the East.

In high school I played football, starred in plays, had plenty of very attractive long term girlfriends including a cheerleader and a drill team chick and lost my virginity on my wedding night at 23. Get ready for perpetual darkness kids.

[Balloon guy 158]

No, the point is the minority in the gay marriage debate wants inclusion not exclusion. The bar should have to be much higher than 55% to start outlawing things. With current abortion rules, you can choose. Conservative social ideas are about outlawing this or that or banning this or that. I dont feel 55% should be allowed to outlaw or ban things that 45% of people want. The 45% are just trying to provide choices.Thats the biggest difference. It's a hard idea to explain while also trying to play poker. Sorry.

Roe V. Wade won by a 5-4 decision, so by this logic you would argue that we must strike it down?The tyranny of the minority is a real phenomenon in this country.And conservative social ideas are not about outlawing, they are about preserving...or another word would be conserving. You see the connection there?

[vbnautilus 49]

I wouldn't call it a contradiction, so much as it's just impractical.Surely you would agree that abstinence would decrease pregnancies.

Teaching abstinence-only does not decrease pregnancies. It increases them. There's lots of research on that.

[CaneBrain 97]

Roe V. Wade won by a 5-4 decision, so by this logic you would argue that we must strike it down?The tyranny of the minority is a real phenomenon in this country.And conservative social ideas are not about outlawing, they are about preserving...or another word would be conserving. You see the connection there?

Tyranny? The minority is about giving people options the the majority is about taking them away.