9553 replies to this topic

[DiamondDixie]

KingJames, on Tuesday, February 14th, 2012, 12:45 AM, said:

vs that particular villain a 3b pre is certainly optimal and I think after that the hand plays it self. Good analysis from both you and fighter, nh

Nope lol he had one of the two hands that beat me, JJ for a set and I didn't suck out, but I'd play it the same way again so that's poker. I just wanted to make sure I played optimally and wasn't missing anything.Thanks!

[fighter]

bat, on Wednesday, February 15th, 2012, 12:37 AM, said:

Unfortunately, I also have to highly disagree with you in regards to always going all in preflop with AA (although I'll caution to say that you are 'wrong' here). Aces should always be played in regards to your posistion, number of players in the pot and left to act behind, the amount of BBs held in said posistions and the amount of BBs you have, the table image of the other players, how much alcohol you've consumed, etc. etc. and can be very profitable without just shoving every single time!! I hardly ever shove AA preflop unless I have very aggressive ''any two cards'' players ahead of me and my stack is less than 20 bbs. However, as an intermediate player, I would try to just narrow down the number of players going to the flop with a nice size 3xbb bet or something and start raking in the dough with those pocket rockets!!......but as Fighter said, this is the wrong section to discuss poker, so I'll end it there. (thanks for the link fighter...I have actually posted in that thread!)

Just to be clear, You mean that you shouldn't overbet preflop and just shove 100bb into a 3bb pot? Or do you actually mean that not going all in pre flop when we have ~80% equity because their might be a chance for a higher percentage on a later street?

[bat]

fighter, on Tuesday, February 14th, 2012, 8:48 AM, said:

Just to be clear, You mean that you shouldn't overbet preflop and just shove 100bb into a 3bb pot? Or do you actually mean that not going all in pre flop when we have ~80% equity because their might be a chance for a higher percentage on a later street?

Hmm. I wouldn't want to shove 100bb into a 3bb pot without a given situation warranting it (can't think of one to be honest), if that's what you're asking? Personally I'd rather try to gain some equity on every street with aces by narrowing down the field going into the flop with a nice sized raise or 3bet and try to play from there as opposed to shoving. I don't like getting it all in preflop except on very rare occasions.... not having enough fold equity being the major one. You?

[fighter]

bat, on Wednesday, February 15th, 2012, 5:35 AM, said:

Hmm. I wouldn't want to shove 100bb into a 3bb pot without a given situation warranting it (can't think of one to be honest), if that's what you're asking? Personally I'd rather try to gain some equity on every street with aces by narrowing down the field going into the flop with a nice sized raise or 3bet and try to play from there as opposed to shoving. I don't like getting it all in preflop except on very rare occasions.... not having enough fold equity being the major one. You?

Agree completely about not wanting to use silly raise sizes. There seemed to be an implication in the previous responses about just open shoving which I didn't realise was their until your last post. To me doing standard raise, 3 bet , 4 bet , shove with 100bb is so standard I didn't even envision it needing to be stated.

[bat]

fighter, on Tuesday, February 14th, 2012, 2:58 PM, said:

Agree completely about not wanting to use silly raise sizes. There seemed to be an implication in the previous responses about just open shoving which I didn't realise was their until your last post. To me doing standard raise, 3 bet , 4 bet , shove with 100bb is so standard I didn't even envision it needing to be stated.

Ah, gotcha.... but sometimes it's fun just to limp in and play them out too! =)

[CobaltBlue]

Bovada 2/4 NLHE (6-handed)Cobalt is Button w/ . SB is running 33/16 over 45 hands.Pre-flop:3 folds, Cobalt raises to $12, SB calls, 1 foldFlop ($28): (2 players)SB checks, Cobalt checksTurn ($28): (2 players)SB checks, Cobalt checksRiver ($28) (2 players)SB bets $32, Cobalt callsSB shows Cobalt win $89(Rake: $3)

[SuperJon]

Well okay then.Merge - $0.04 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 playersHand converted by PokerTracker 3: http://www.pokertracker.comBTN: $2.20SB: $6.45Hero (BB): $5.85UTG: $8.32MP: $1.86CO: $7.50SB posts SB $0.02, Hero posts BB $0.04Pre Flop: ($0.06) Hero has 6s 6dfold, MP calls $0.04, CO raises to $0.16, fold, fold, Hero calls $0.12, MP calls $0.12Flop: ($0.50, 3 players) Kd Ah 6cHero checks, MP checks, CO bets $0.40, Hero raises to $1.05, fold, CO raises to $7.34 and is all-in, Hero calls $4.64 and is all-inTurn: ($11.88, 2 players) TdRiver: ($11.88, 2 players) 9cHero shows 6s 6d (Three of a Kind, Sixes) (Pre 70%, Flop 98%, Turn 91%)CO shows 4d Js (High Card, Ace) (Pre 30%, Flop 2%, Turn 9%)Hero wins $11.29

[DiamondDixie]

This is goofy spot. I was getting 1.6:1 so I needed about 40% equity to call and at best only had about 36% but his shove just didn't make sense.Villain is MDoranD the CardRunners' micros pro. He 3 bets about 7.5% in the blinds, is capable of bluffing some here but not much with this goofy play. I'm actually as interested in what you think of his play as much as what I should do...Merge - $0.10 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 4 playersHand converted by PokerTracker 4BB: $10.61Hero (UTG): $9.80BTN: $9.35SB: $10.52SB posts SB $0.05, BB posts BB $0.10Pre Flop: (pot: $0.15) Hero has T:club: T:diamond: Hero raises to $0.30, fold, SB raises to $1.10, fold, Hero calls $0.80Flop: ($2.30, 2 players) 3:diamond: 4:club: 7:club: SB bets $1.43, Hero calls $1.43Turn: ($5.16, 2 players) J:club: SB bets $7.99 and is all-in, Hero/ ????

[KingJames]

4 handed vs a good reg I 4b/get-it-in pre as my standard; def 99 also and likely 77 and 88. And AJs, AQ+ and KQs just 4b to like 2.25-2.60.In a short-handed game vs aggro regs we need to widen our value ranges and calling TT IP here is pretty bad imo.As played I cry call and make a note/adjustment

[DiamondDixie]

KingJames, on Monday, February 20th, 2012, 12:01 AM, said:

4 handed vs a good reg I 4b/get-it-in pre as my standard; def 99 also and likely 77 and 88. And AJs, AQ+ and KQs just 4b to like 2.25-2.60.In a short-handed game vs aggro regs we need to widen our value ranges and calling TT IP here is pretty bad imo.As played I cry call and make a note/adjustment

I went over this hand with a couple of friends and we discussed just 4 betting him reasonably wide in these spots, I def think it's profitable over the long run. As played though I did call because a fold just felt wrong based on him making this weird play. He showed up with AJhh and I didn't suck out.

[bat]

DiamondDixie, on Sunday, February 19th, 2012, 11:04 PM, said:

I went over this hand with a couple of friends and we discussed just 4 betting him reasonably wide in these spots, I def think it's profitable over the long run. As played though I did call because a fold just felt wrong based on him making this weird play. He showed up with AJhh and I didn't suck out.

What did you think he put you on tho? I'm thinking he had you on a small to medium pair and unless you hit a set or flopped the nut straight(which he eliminated 5/6 with your preflop call), he had top pair, top kicker there and was in decent shape for show down.

[DiamondDixie]

bat, on Monday, February 20th, 2012, 9:07 AM, said:

What did you think he put you on tho? I'm thinking he had you on a small to medium pair and unless you hit a set or flopped the nut straight(which he eliminated 5/6 with your preflop call), he had top pair, top kicker there and was in decent shape for show down.

Good question, If I'm him and since he has very little history with me that he knew of and I have the ladies game win accolade showing, so a female random probably fish would be how I'd be thinking if I were him so based on that I'd think I could be up against 55+ AK, AQ plus other ace rags hands since women have trouble folding ace rags and pps,, mb high SCs since I'm IP so I can definitely have 2 clubs here and mb QQ but that's iffy, He did see me double barrel with air in another hand on another table so don't know if that made any difference to how he was thinking but as far as he knew we had no more than 30 hands together. He plays a lot of tables so I doubt he's noticed much more than my stats which over that few hands don't say much other than mb I do 3 bet and I don't open limp but not enough info to dismiss the sterotype of female so probably fish.So if his read on me is what I would think it should of been I think his play is actually fine and somewhat interesting actually. Adding in the fact that fish and women tend to be very stationy if they connect or have a good PP I think it was a very good way to get value. He's ahead enough times against what he would think I might have for that shove to be profitable imo.

[bat]

DiamondDixie, on Tuesday, February 21st, 2012, 4:39 AM, said:

Good question, If I'm him and since he has very little history with me that he knew of and I have the ladies game win accolade showing, so a female random probably fish would be how I'd be thinking if I were him so based on that I'd think I could be up against 55+ AK, AQ plus other ace rags hands since women have trouble folding ace rags and pps,, mb high SCs since I'm IP so I can definitely have 2 clubs here and mb QQ but that's iffy, He did see me double barrel with air in another hand on another table so don't know if that made any difference to how he was thinking but as far as he knew we had no more than 30 hands together. He plays a lot of tables so I doubt he's noticed much more than my stats which over that few hands don't say much other than mb I do 3 bet and I don't open limp but not enough info to dismiss the sterotype of female so probably fish.So if his read on me is what I would think it should of been I think his play is actually fine and somewhat interesting actually. Adding in the fact that fish and women tend to be very stationy if they connect or have a good PP I think it was a very good way to get value. He's ahead enough times against what he would think I might have for that shove to be profitable imo.

Yeah, he was 'ok' with playing it that way in my book too I suppose but a few hands could've had him close to/already drawing dead on the turn, let alone the river. Since he's the 'micro pro' he was probably just playing 24 tables at a time and said 'oh top pair/top kicker...all in!" ha! Thanks for sharing the hand Diamond Dixie!

[CobaltBlue]

Decided to give the Cake shallow tables a shot. This hand was fun.Cake 2/4 NLHE (4-handed)Button $251Cobalt $277BB $217Cobalt is SB w/ . We've 3-bet Button a couple of times in the past couple of orbits, so this will be the third time in a short span. PTR has him as a loser.Pre-flop:1 fold, Button raises to $10, Cobalt re-raises to $38, 1 fold, Button callsFlop ($82): (2 players)Cobalt bets $20, Button callsTurn ($122): (2 players)Cobalt bets $32, Button raises to $78, Cobalt callsRiver ($278): (2 players)Cobalt checks, Button goes all-in for $115, Cobalt callsButton shows :8sCobalt wins $508He called me a donkey.

[KingJames]

You are a donkey, Marchant. Interestingly I had just opened a bottle of IBC root beer when I opened this thread and saw your post.DD:I think vs a mass-tabling reg (is he pretty nitty? what do you have him running at? Over how many hands?) I fold the turn. He's going to show JJ+ a lot more than AK or an airball (most have at least a little equity).Just bring us back to pre-flop. 4-betting is so far superior to flatting the TT- so next time you play with him just 4bet/call 77+ and 3b/5b him really wide too (what is his 4b stat?). He likely won't make adjustments very quickly if he's mass-tabling

[DiamondDixie]

His stats are 20/17/6.7% 3bet and he folds to 4 bets only 38%

[SuperJon]

lol herocallsMerge - $0.04 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 playersHand converted by PokerTracker 3: http://www.pokertracker.comSB: $2.88Hero (BB): $8.25UTG: $1.01MP: $4.32CO: $4.56BTN: $0.86SB posts SB $0.02, Hero posts BB $0.04Pre Flop: ($0.06) Hero has Ah Khfold, fold, fold, fold, SB calls $0.02, Hero raises to $0.16, SB calls $0.12Flop: ($0.32, 2 players) 9c Tc 9sSB checks, Hero checksTurn: ($0.32, 2 players) ThSB checks, Hero checksRiver: ($0.32, 2 players) AsSB checks, Hero bets $0.32, SB calls $0.32Hero shows Ah Kh (Two Pair, Aces and Tens) (Pre 50%, Flop 41%, Turn 91%)SB shows 2h 2s (Two Pair, Tens and Nines) (Pre 50%, Flop 59%, Turn 9%)Hero wins $0.92

[KingJames]

Great bet, Jon!

[SuperJon]

ty james.it's not every day you get it all in pre with AK against 2 other players and have them drawing dead on the turn.Merge - $0.04 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 playersHand converted by PokerTracker 3CO: $2.98BTN: $5.24SB: $8.54BB: $3.42Hero (UTG): $4.32SB posts SB $0.02, BB posts BB $0.04Pre Flop: ($0.06) Hero has K:heart: A:heart: Hero raises to $0.18, fold, BTN raises to $0.54, SB calls $0.52, BB calls $0.50, Hero raises to $4.32 and is all-in, fold, SB raises to $8.54 and is all-in, BB calls $2.88 and is all-inFlop: ($12.60, 3 players) 7:diamond: K:club: 5:club: Turn: ($12.60, 3 players) 5:heart: River: ($12.60, 3 players) Q:diamond: SB shows T:heart: J:diamond: (One Pair, Fives) (Pre 26%, Flop 6%, Turn 0%)BB shows T:spade: 8:heart: (One Pair, Fives) (Pre 18%, Flop 6%, Turn 0%)Hero shows K:heart: A:heart: (Two Pair, Kings and Fives) (Pre 56%, Flop 89%, Turn 100%)Hero wins $1.72Hero wins $10.25

[SuperJon]

sturtegy handVillain is 17/13 over 100+ handsFlop: I decide to x/r because I think he'll fold most of his non-set pairs and AK hands. And I have two overs + back door draws. I plan on barreling any A, Q, K, T, or diamond.Turn: Bet for value. No draws on the flop, so to call a x/r I imagine is range to be weighted towards pairs.River: Here's where I get stuck. Is this now a spot where as weak as it sounds, x/f would be best?? I can't imagine many weaker hands calling if I bet (KJ, AJ, and even those might fold), and I can't see any worse hands that would bet the river if I were to check.Merge - $0.04 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 playersHand converted by PokerTracker 3UTG: $5.77CO: $4.00BTN: $3.94SB: $3.16Hero (BB): $4.06SB posts SB $0.02, Hero posts BB $0.04Pre Flop: ($0.06) Hero has A:diamond: Q:diamond: fold, fold, BTN raises to $0.11, fold, Hero calls $0.07Flop: ($0.24, 2 players) 7:spade: 3:club: J:diamond: Hero checks, BTN bets $0.16, Hero raises to $0.49, BTN calls $0.33Turn: ($1.22, 2 players) Q:heart: Hero bets $0.65, BTN calls $0.65River: ($2.52, 2 players) 4:spade: