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New Challenge: Movin' On Up


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#8081 XXEddie

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 04:59 PM

View PostSCS, on Saturday, July 9th, 2011, 6:44 PM, said:

3 bet preflop against a tight raising range unless you have a really strong read that one of the blinds is squeeze happy.If your plan is to shove the turn I'd raise the flop a bit larger so we don't have to overbet.
I'm not sure if shoving the turn with KJs plan all along, but when SB flats and CO folds, SB is his only opponent and only has $1.71 left in a pot of $2.68. So his shove isn't really an overbet.

#8082 SCS

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 05:09 PM

View PostXXEddie, on Saturday, July 9th, 2011, 7:59 PM, said:

I'm not sure if shoving the turn with KJs plan all along, but when SB flats and CO folds, SB is his only opponent and only has $1.71 left in a pot of $2.68. So his shove isn't really an overbet.
Yeah, you're right. I got CO and SB mixed up. Still, we should raise flop larger because CO could potentially call, assuming we are planning to shove turn vs him.

#8083 SuperJon

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 05:54 PM

Can we discuss range balancing. I just want to make sure I understand the concept.This is pretty much geared towards 4betting, but I think it can apply to other areas.Ok, so let's say my range of 4bet/stack off hands is AK, QQ+ That's 34 combos. Now when I think of balancing a bluffing range, I think I'm supposed to have around 34 combos of hands that I'm 4bet/folding. Is that the right way to think about it?

#8084 KingJames

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 06:24 PM

View PostSCS, on Saturday, July 9th, 2011, 6:44 PM, said:

3 bet preflop against a tight raising range unless you have a really strong read that one of the blinds is squeeze happy.If your plan is to shove the turn I'd raise the flop a bit larger so we don't have to overbet.
Yeah, CO was 23/20, so not a tight preflop range and the sb is a fish and bb was squeeze happy (22% 3b over 40 hands, but still)Yeah, I think flop raise could be 1.15 or 1.20 for suretyty, fellas
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#8085 SCS

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 07:17 PM

View PostSuperJon, on Saturday, July 9th, 2011, 8:54 PM, said:

Can we discuss range balancing. I just want to make sure I understand the concept.This is pretty much geared towards 4betting, but I think it can apply to other areas.Ok, so let's say my range of 4bet/stack off hands is AK, QQ+ That's 34 combos. Now when I think of balancing a bluffing range, I think I'm supposed to have around 34 combos of hands that I'm 4bet/folding. Is that the right way to think about it?
If you have a balanced 4 betting range, then your ev is 0 no matter what villain does.We also need to make a few assumptions which for the purpose of this example is:1) We are the CO, villain is BTN.2) Villain is 3 betting 10% in this specific spot.3) Villain is shoving AK, QQ+ to a 4 bet, and folding everything else.4) Blinds fold5) We open the pot to 3bbs, villain 3 bets to 10bbs, we 4 bet to 22bbs. Since villain is 3 betting 10% of the time and shoving QQ+, AK over a 4 bet, villain is folding 3/4 of the time to a 4 bet.Our ev when villain folds is the size of the pot x the percent villain folds - what we risk x the percent villain callsor 14.5(.75) - 19(.25)or 6.125So if the ev of villain folding is 6.125, then if we are balanced in our 4 betting range, we should make -6.125bbs whenever villain shoves.The ev calc for this is: [x(126.5(.50) - 78(.50))] + -19(1-x) = -6.125 (where x = percent times we are value 4 betting and 1 -x = percent times we are bluffing)x(63.25 - 39) - 19 + 19x = -6.12563.25x - 39x - 19 + 19x = -6.12543.25x - 19 = -6.12543.25x = 12.875x = 29.8%Which means we should be 4 bet bluffing about 70% of the time to be balanced in this spot.Since QQ+, AK is 34 combos and 34 = .30x, the total number of combos, bluff and value, is 113. 113 - 34 = 79 combos of bluffs.

#8086 KingJames

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 08:06 PM

Are you the same SCS from DC?
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#8087 SCS

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 08:29 PM

View PostKingJames, on Sunday, July 10th, 2011, 12:06 AM, said:

Are you the same SCS from DC?
Yep.

#8088 KingJames

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 08:58 PM

great post on balance
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#8089 SCS

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 10:20 PM

View PostKingJames, on Saturday, July 9th, 2011, 11:58 PM, said:

great post on balance
Thanks.Also, while balance is important to think about, it usually isn't the most profitable way to play a hand, especially against a fish. Against them we want to play an exploitative style.

#8090 KingJames

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 10:55 PM

View PostSCS, on Sunday, July 10th, 2011, 12:20 AM, said:

Thanks.Also, while balance is important to think about, it usually isn't the most profitable way to play a hand, especially against a fish. Against them we want to play an exploitative style.
Oh yeah. I play extremely exploitable but it's like the micros where we just value bet fish and bluff tight regs...
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#8091 SuperJon

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 05:33 AM

View PostSCS, on Sunday, July 10th, 2011, 2:20 AM, said:

Also, while balance is important to think about, it usually isn't the most profitable way to play a hand, especially against a fish. Against them we want to play an exploitative style.
Oh for sure. Since I'm really working on becoming a strong lag player, I just wanted to figure out how to balance a 4bet range against regs that will be 3betting me since I'm opening much more frequently.

#8092 trystero

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 06:09 AM

sorry I'm still hung up on the fact that James flatted kings pf

#8093 KingJames

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 09:42 AM

View Posttrystero, on Sunday, July 10th, 2011, 8:09 AM, said:

sorry I'm still hung up on the fact that James flatted kings pf
keep my ranges wide and tough to play against, obvgot ATdd to put >1/3 of his stack in on the floooop... then I shoveled drawing dead... obv expert play itt
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#8094 SCS

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 12:12 PM

View PostKingJames, on Sunday, July 10th, 2011, 12:42 PM, said:

keep my ranges wide and tough to play against, obvgot ATdd to put >1/3 of his stack in on the floooop... then I shoveled drawing dead... obv expert play itt
From the Gavin Smith school of poker?

#8095 SCS

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 12:21 PM

View PostSuperJon, on Sunday, July 10th, 2011, 8:33 AM, said:

Oh for sure. Since I'm really working on becoming a strong lag player, I just wanted to figure out how to balance a 4bet range against regs that will be 3betting me since I'm opening much more frequently.
The problem with having a balanced 4 betting range, is that decent regs are going to notice your frequencies and start adjusting their 3 bet/5betting ranges, which means you will have to readjust to balance. Also, I wouldn't worry about balance in spots that don't come up that often, even against regs. Situations like 4 betting preflop, river crai, river overbets, etc, you can play an extremely exploitable style. Spots where you want to play a balanced style, or as close a s possible to one, are situations that come up often, such as making a cbet on a flop. Against a fish you should play an exploitable style, betting large with your strong hands and small with your weaker hands against a fish, but against a good thinking player you'd want to bet about the same amount with your entire range.

#8096 XXEddie

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 01:59 PM

I have broken down and created a twitter. Figured it'd would make it easier to follow poker tournaments and some sports. Also thought it'd help posting hands on there too and trying to get people to follow and give me input on hands. If you too have a twitter feel free to follow me @SirRawrsALot

#8097 KingJames

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 08:37 PM

View PostXXEddie, on Sunday, July 10th, 2011, 3:59 PM, said:

I have broken down and created a twitter. Figured it'd would make it easier to follow poker tournaments and some sports. Also thought it'd help posting hands on there too and trying to get people to follow and give me input on hands. If you too have a twitter feel free to follow me @SirRawrsALot
couldn't find you, but that sometimes happens with new acctsill try again tomorrow
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#8098 SuperJon

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Posted 11 July 2011 - 04:12 PM

ugh itching to play, but this damn flu is making it impossible to focus.

#8099 XXEddie

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Posted 11 July 2011 - 04:34 PM

View PostKingJames, on Sunday, July 10th, 2011, 10:37 PM, said:

couldn't find you, but that sometimes happens with new acctsill try again tomorrow
Ha. I tried searching KingJames in hopes of finding you. All I got was 345 accounts in reference to LeBron James. #whoops

#8100 Ninja Ace

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 05:46 AM

mobile broadband rocks. Now I can slack on the go too :)I wonder how long Virgin Mobile will keep up the $50 unlimited plan....
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