20 replies to this topic

[pbwl11]

Interesting hand that came up last night in my 3/6 game at the casino:Villian 1 is in EP, a loose player who loves to chase everything and call down with any pair.Villian 2 is in MP, a good player, pretty solid, and has shown mostly quality hands, but does like to play any ace and any suited.Villian 3 on BTN, is a total loose donk who calls down anything when he catches any part of the board hoping everyone is bluffing.We've been at the table for a few hours, and they see me as a solid player showing good hands, even laying down to my occasional well timed bluffs (all 1 of them)Hero is in the BB with Ah Jc5 limpers to flop: Js 3c 5cHero bets out, villain 1 calls, limper in EMP folds, villian 2 calls, villian 3 calls.Turn: AsHero bets, villian 1 (who has 5 bucks left) calls all in, villian 2 tanks for 30 seconds then calls, villain 3 raises, hero 3 bets, villian 2 auto calls, villian 3 calls.Now while the dealer is scooping the pot, and setting apart the the side pot, I glance at villian 2, who is showing his cards to the player next to him. I hear that player say "I think you're probably good right now" and they both nod.River: 9dVillian 1 shakes his head in disgust, so I know he was chasing a flush draw that missed.Hero.....?Let's ignore the question of wether or not I should have raised preflop with the AJ cus my SOP in the BB is to check for the sake of mixing up my play a little.With the comment by the player by villian 2, do you bet out? Does villian have a strong hand he was slowplaying? Was he also on a draw?Could villian 3 finally have woke up and actually caught a hand, although I kow he'd only raise with 2 pair or better, he may have a set?What are some opinions on how to play the hand?

[StrippersNBlow]

If villiann 2 or 3, had a set, do you really think he would flat your 3bet on the turn? He may also have aces up, with one of the babies. If he's as loose as you say, that would look like an absolute monster to him. I would think any idea either had of getting tricky would go out the window once you 3bet. That's a green light to jam jam jam. If you're really that worried about it, bet out, and just call his raise. I don't think you can check that river, considering the amount of times you'll have the best hand here.

[rivergirl]

my first reaction might have been to call the floor over...the guy discsussing his hand with the player next to him is usually not allowed and half the table should've been saying something by now. especially after he showed his cards to him. (that may just be my casino, but someone would've flipped the table over after that)Regardless, i would probably call in this position. Good chance he's playing Ax maybe hitting a smaller two pair. i think if he hit a set, it's a cooler and there is not much you can do.

[CoolHandKai]

rivergirl, on Saturday, January 30th, 2010, 12:31 PM, said:

my first reaction might have been to call the floor over...the guy discsussing his hand with the player next to him is usually not allowed and half the table should've been saying something by now. especially after he showed his cards to him. (that may just be my casino, but someone would've flipped the table over after that)

Agreed. At the very least, it should have been pointed out for future reference that he's not allowed to do that.If this is limit, I'd be inclined to bet-call. Who knows whether this guy really has you beat and you may be missing value by not betting.In no limit it's a bit more complicated as one big mistake typically wipes out hours of good play. If villain 2 had the best hand (set or 24) on the turn, why is he just flat calling with it? I'm completely stumped here and would lean towards check-calling.

[MaxStPolish]

im admittedly not a limit guy.....but based on your analysis of the players at this table, in general.....I think there's a lot of hands villain has, namely lesser two pairs, that these chatty cathy's think is "probably good" against you. I agree that he's not flatting your 3 on the turn with a set. There's just absolutely no sense in that, because you are taking a pot control line OOP, when I feel certain you should be getting as much money in the middle as possible for value with the river to come.

[blakheart]

rivergirl, on Saturday, January 30th, 2010, 4:31 AM, said:

my first reaction might have been to call the floor over...the guy discsussing his hand with the player next to him is usually not allowed and half the table should've been saying something by now. especially after he showed his cards to him. (that may just be my casino, but someone would've flipped the table over after that)Regardless, i would probably call in this position. Good chance he's playing Ax maybe hitting a smaller two pair. i think if he hit a set, it's a cooler and there is not much you can do.

I disagree-People doing this are often new players that are not very skilled. I think it is important to make them feel welcome to the game. It doesn't hurt us and gives us more information.That being said my read is that the you are good based on the action. I strengthen my read because of the conversation. A good player would not show his hand. Also a good player sitting next to our villian would simply smile and nod without comment upon seeing villian's hand. The fact that he made a comment makes me think he is a bit of a donkey.Adding it up Villian 2 showed his hand because the Ace hit him. I think he has an Ace and a baby. Bet out and hope he raises.

[FCP Bob]

You're probably good with your top 2 but people shouldn't discount that a set is out there just because the turn wasn't 4 bet. By the way is a cap at this casino 4 bets or 5 ?Nobody should have a straight the way that this was played but a lot of live limit players in low limit games are quite passive by nature and when you 3 bet out of the blind unless they have the nuts they might not cap it. This isn't an online 6 max game.Saying that the play to me is bet the river and if you are raised you should hate your hand but call anyway.

[CoolHandKai]

FCP Bob, on Saturday, January 30th, 2010, 5:24 PM, said:

Nobody should have a straight the way that this was played

Why not? If villain2 holds 24, he's getting 7:1 with a call to draw to his open ended straight draw. The only odd thing is that he merely called on the turn, when he made his straight, if he was indeed holding 24. But why would it be possible for him to check a set and not check a made straight?

[Canary3]

I think this is an easy bet on the river.

[FCP Bob]

CoolHandKai, on Saturday, January 30th, 2010, 1:10 PM, said:

Why not? If villain2 holds 24, he's getting 7:1 with a call to draw to his open ended straight draw. The only odd thing is that he merely called on the turn, when he made his straight, if he was indeed holding 24. But why would it be possible for him to check a set and not check a made straight?

The reason that a low limit live player won't 4 bet the set is because he doesn't have the nuts, it isn't that he's trying to be tricky usually. With the straight he has the nuts and will just keep betting usually. A player with a set in this hand is often going to see monsters under the bed and be afraid of the blind that just 3 bet having the straight.Just would be very surprising to see the straight the way the hand was played on the turn.There is a large population of live limit holdem players at the low limits who are very loose but very passive and when somebody 3 bets them unless they have the nuts or close to it won't 4 bet unless of course they decide to bluff spew at a pot.

[pbwl11]

Just to clarify a couple things from my OP:This is a 3/6 limit game.The player next to villian 2 didn't exactly say out loud "You're probably good." I just happened to glance at the right time to read his lips as he whispered.

[Balloon guy]

I would show my hand and muck them face up.The open farrel here is really strong.And apparently the rules are lax in this casino so you won't have to listen to the floor as her recites the rules all while looking at you with eyes that clearly say; "Nice play my man, nice play"

[CoolHandKai]

FCP Bob, on Saturday, January 30th, 2010, 6:25 PM, said:

The reason that a low limit live player won't 4 bet the set is because he doesn't have the nuts, it isn't that he's trying to be tricky usually. With the straight he has the nuts and will just keep betting usually. A player with a set in this hand is often going to see monsters under the bed and be afraid of the blind that just 3 bet having the straight.

Ah, ok. That makes sense. I lack the experience to know how low limit live players think, thanks for the clarification.

[I_fold08]

Canary3, on Saturday, January 30th, 2010, 1:19 PM, said:

I think this is an easy bet on the river.

[Stiles2004]

pbwl11, on Saturday, January 30th, 2010, 10:45 AM, said:

Just to clarify a couple things from my OP:This is a 3/6 limit game.The player next to villian 2 didn't exactly say out loud "You're probably good." I just happened to glance at the right time to read his lips as he whispered.

I complain to the floor that my opponent has shown his live cards, he's declared dead and I scoopEasy game

[Ben_G]

call the floor poker isnt a team sport

[SCYUKON]

So what happened? Were your top 2 good or did you run into a set? I am results oriented.

[pbwl11]

SCYUKON, on Saturday, January 30th, 2010, 12:03 PM, said:

So what happened? Were your top 2 good or did you run into a set? I am results oriented.

Well, I bet out the turn, and figured to make a crying call if I was raised by either villian....Turned out that villian 2 had Jacks and 5, and villain 3 had Aces and 3, and I was 99% certain villain 3 had squadoosh, so my top 2 pair was good. I thought for sure villain 2 had a set or a straight, but I can't really fold in this spot now can I?

[lurbz]

Stiles2004, on Saturday, January 30th, 2010, 11:21 AM, said:

I complain to the floor that my opponent has shown his live cards, he's declared dead and I scoopEasy game

[mtdesmoines]

bet/call AINEC