13 replies to this topic

[mx957]

Ok, I made my best showing ever in a MTT this weekend 12th out of 1752 in a $30.00 + $3 tourney on Party. I was feeling pretty good but one hand is bothering me. I think if I had extracted a few more chips I might have made it to the final table. Tell me what you guys think. Was I to tight to not bet the river? I had the K of Diamonds and the A was on the board so the best he could have been drawing to was a Q...Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t3000 (10 handed) converterUTG+1 (t10651)Hero (t51244)MP1 (t9086)MP2 (t31661)MP3 (t29292)CO (t46406)Button (t21953)SB (t19861)BB (t51812)UTG (t60113)Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with [Kd], [Ks]. UTG calls t3000, 1 fold, UTG calls t6000.Flop: (t22500) [2d], [Kc], [4d] (2 players)UTG checks, Hero bets t3000, UTG calls t3000.Turn: (t28500) [8c] (2 players)UTG checks, Hero bets t3000, UTG calls t3000.River: (t34500) [Ad] (2 players)UTG checks, Hero checks.edited per allinbluff....thx..A couple more details. There are about 25 people left at this point and I am in about 4th in total chips.

[allinbluff35]

change it to "bet the pot" format and delete the results as that will create hindsight biased responses

[BeanGW]

Yes, you played this too tightly. I think you know that too. :wink: I would have bet about 2/3 the pot on the flop. Even though it looks unlikely that he would have been drawing here, ya never know, and you gave him pretty darn good pot odds to make the call on the flop and even on the turn. If he was drawing on the flop and still called your flop bet of 2/3 the pot, you definitely could have pushed him off the hand by going all in on the turn.I would have put him on a pair of 10's or something like that though. If he did hit his flush and didn't bet into you on the river he is a complete moron. With the situation I laid out you wouldn't have had to worry about the river bet, because you would have put him on a decision for all his chips by the turn.Your villain played this hand like a complete donk by the way. Can we say "Calling Station???"

[mk]

I don't mind the check on the river since you really have to fear a flush knowing the way he played this hand, but I think you played this much too passively on the turn. After he smooth calls your bet on the flop, what hands can you put him on? I see a small number of possibilities. He either:A) Limped with a hand like AA or QQ pre-flopB) is on a flush drawC) flopped a lower set and is slowplaying.D) has a hand like AK or KQ and is slowplaying.If any of the above scenarios is correct, I would love to be all-in on the turn. If he's slowplaying (C or D), you're going to double up. If he's drawing, you make him pay the maximum, and if he feels like gambling for all his chips, then oh well. You can feel good about getting all your chips in with at the absolute worst a 80/20 advantage. (Since you hold the Kd, he only has 8 outs to a flush.) More aggressive on the turn...my only advice.

[Rocketwadster]

I am sure that many others will disagree with me, but I don't think there is anything wrong with checking that river. You have to look at what the other guy could have been calling you with all throughout that hand. Suppose you did bet out on the river and the guy brings it in for a raise...then what are you gonna do? Who cares that you actually did win the hand, it is the play that matters, not the results. :wink:

[bascomeb]

you played this hand horribly. you need to bet out more then the minimum here. People who do this are just asking for trouble. Your not getting the money you should be when flopping trip kings and you're not making him pay for drawing to a flush. If he doesn't have any kind of hand then oh well, but don't be cute and bet the min. You can't waste your trip kings by betting the minimum. Who knows, maybe he has pocket 10s and won't believe you have the king.Then later in the tourney after you raising preflop and bet out big, they probably know you have jack shit since you were trying to suck them in earlier. It's probably how you got it now isn't it??????????

[mx957]

bascomeb said:

you played this hand horribly. you need to bet out more then the minimum here. People who do this are just asking for trouble. Your not getting the money you should be when flopping trip kings and you're not making him pay for drawing to a flush. If he doesn't have any kind of hand then oh well, but don't be cute and bet the min. You can't waste your trip kings by betting the minimum. Who knows, maybe he has pocket 10s and won't believe you have the king.Then later in the tourney after you raising preflop and bet out big, they probably know you have jack censored since you were trying to suck them in earlier. It's probably how you got it now isn't it??????????

Not really. I raised 5x the big blind with pocket Q's and got raised all in by AK. An A hit the turn and I was out in 12. I think the turn bet I probably should have bet more but the river is where I am most worried about.

[Rocketwadster]

bascomeb said:

you played this hand horribly. you need to bet out more then the minimum here. People who do this are just asking for trouble. Your not getting the money you should be when flopping trip kings and you're not making him pay for drawing to a flush. If he doesn't have any kind of hand then oh well, but don't be cute and bet the min. You can't waste your trip kings by betting the minimum. Who knows, maybe he has pocket 10s and won't believe you have the king.Then later in the tourney after you raising preflop and bet out big, they probably know you have jack censored since you were trying to suck them in earlier. It's probably how you got it now isn't it??????????

He didnt ask for comments on how he played the hand, his question was specifically geared towards the river. Everything he did before that point was moot. You didn't even give him your thoughts on the question he asked... :wink:

[BeanGW]

Rocketwadster said:

He didnt ask for comments on how he played the hand, his question was specifically geared towards the river. Everything he did before that point was moot. You didn't even give him your thoughts on the question he asked... :wink:

Rocket... while I totally agree with you, the problem, as I see it is that yes, he did play the river perfectly. His question is about the only part of the hand (aside from preflop) that he played correctly.AND... the river play was necessary due to his poor flop and turn plays. He absolutely needed to bet more on both the flop and turn so that he could have avoided this situation.

[Vade]

With this set, I think all of your chips need to be in the pot somewhere before the river. That said, there's nothing wrong with checking the river because you have position and the card is scary.He should have had to risk doubling you up to see it though. Raising more on all streets probably would have put you all in, which is the way to go with top set.

[Rocketwadster]

BeanGW said:

Rocketwadster said:

He didnt ask for comments on how he played the hand, his question was specifically geared towards the river. Everything he did before that point was moot. You didn't even give him your thoughts on the question he asked... :wink:

Rocket... while I totally agree with you, the problem, as I see it is that yes, he did play the river perfectly. His question is about the only part of the hand (aside from preflop) that he played correctly.AND... the river play was necessary due to his poor flop and turn plays. He absolutely needed to bet more on both the flop and turn so that he could have avoided this situation.

Agreed. However, I don't feel the need to advise people of possible errors in what they have done unless they specifically ask. Not supposed to tap the glass...lol :wink:

[mx957]

UTG shows [ Jd, Ah ] a pair of aces.Hero shows [ Kd, Ks ] three of a kind, kings.Hero wins 34500 chips from the main pot with three of a kind, kings.I know most people think I didn't bet enough on the flop and that's a decision I made at the time. I had a predetermined mindset before I began the tourney to not push as hard as I had in the past. I would always push harder pre-flop and after the flop and end up right around the money. This time I told myself to try and work my strong hands for more chips. It's dangerous and you get sucked out on or they catch up to you. I know it was a risk I was willing to take at the time.I really felt the only hand he could be calling with was the flush draw. Thanks for the assist guys.

[UglyJimStudly]

mx957 said:

I really felt the only hand he could be calling with was the flush draw.

Well, put yourself in his shoes: his opponent made a standard raise preflop, which he called. Not a lot going on on the flop, so he checks, opponent bets the minimum. Same deal on the turn. In his shoes, what would you put yourself on? Probably a drawing hand, or a couple of big cards with no pair. If that's what he put you on, he doesn't need much of a hand to call you down.Given the cards he actually had, I don't know if you could've extracted much more by aggressive play, since there's not enough info to determine whether he would've called you if you'd shown any strength at all. But if he'd had an actual drawing hand - either the flush, or something goofy like 35 - you could easily have lost a hand that you should've won.

[Jordan]

These are one of the few times I may check my set late in a tourney.This really depends on my read of my opponent.If he checks to me here, I may check behind him to induce a bet on the turn. You betting 3k really didn't do any good for you, except building a pot for him (and that only is if he flopped a flush draw - which you don't always have to put your opponent on. If you do, stop.)If he fires the turn, I'm overbetting the pot big time. If he is bluffing, he will fold. If he infact catches up to you, you can most likely bet you still have the hammer lock with top set.If in fact he does fire the turn and you put in the correct raise and he only calls you, this is where you can check the river diamond. However, it would be a stupid play of him to check his flush on that river card hoping you'd bet it. He should be putting in a bet on this river almost every time trying to get paid off with a flush. Unless of course he knows you to be very aggressive and can be certain you will bet it for him.In this case, that Ace would make me happy cause it would seem if anything he was trying to pick you off with A high. Maybe the flush, but I'm not one to always put my opponent on a flush draw when he calls weak bets. You should have value bet this river. Nothing big, nothing fancy. If he you bet 12k here and he pushes, which I doubt he would do at this stage, that goes to your read, but more times than not you will get a bad call or a fold you should have got on the flop or turn depending on the line you took.As well, if you are afraid of being bluffed out of the hand, bet a little higher so if he was thinking about bluffing you, he know he can't cause he will be called. The point is, if you aren't going to bet your strong hands, set of kings, what will you bet? I understand you did well in this tourney to make it this far and I'm not trying to come out as too hard, but this was a great time to make some chips, or win the pot on the flop or turn. Since you "got" him to call down to the river, but didn't define his hand you got yourself in trouble. At this point you may be screwed, but when you think about why, it's cause you did it to yourself.In this situation, you played the hand bad. That's the plain fact. You didn't define his hand with any of your bets and you lost a lot of valuable chips. Granted, he was calling down with nothing on the flop or turn, and perhaps here betting the "min" was right cause you got him to call down (where if you bet the flop harder he most likely would have folded). But I still disagree with the play.Bet the flop harder, or check it. If you check it, raise or come firing on the turn. You don't need to always fear a flush draw, espicially heads up.- Jordan