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10nl: 2p On Flushed Flop


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#1 jmbreslin

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 07:14 PM

From a Rush Poker hand, so no reads.

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (9 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

BB ($1.58)
UTG ($25.57)
UTG+1 ($10)
MP1 ($33.16)
Hero (MP2) ($8.93)
MP3 ($6.48)
CO ($23.90)
Button ($2.32)
SB ($8.37)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 4, A
3 folds, Hero bets $0.20, MP3 calls $0.20, 4 folds

Flop: ($0.55) 5, 4, A (2 players)
Hero bets $0.40, MP3 raises to $0.80, Hero ???

With zero info on villain, would you credit him with a hand I beat often enough here, or is this always a huge hand?

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#2 KingJames

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 08:06 PM

I'm thinking about the flop, but what's up with preflop?
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#3 droberts

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 09:19 PM

QUOTE (KingJames @ Tuesday, January 26th, 2010, 10:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm thinking about the flop, but what's up with preflop?

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#4 Syntonic

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 10:29 PM

QUOTE (jmbreslin @ Tuesday, January 26th, 2010, 8:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
With zero info on villain, would you credit him with a hand I beat often enough here, or is this always a huge hand?


Well he's certainly not just bluffing. Semi-bluff at best. It could either be a better A with a diamond or a flopped flush. I doubt he would do this with just the K of diamonds.

I fold preflop.

Hmm. You have about $8 left and he has about $5.50 after the reraise with ~$1.75 in the pot. You can't really call this, because you're going to fold if a diamond hits and you're going to check the turn (most likely). Either he's drawing to a diamond and he's going to check the turn too, or you're going to have to call a bet OOP. With no reads, and based on his stack, I shove and hope that he has Ax with a diamond.
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#5 SwolyswoND

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 06:16 AM

Yeah if you had just made a normal raise PF (although I fold this pre, a normal raise is better than this), then the pot would be .85-.90 on the flop, you bet for .75 ish, if he minraises then the bet is 1.50 and he would have about 4.50 behind in a pot of over $3, which makes the shove much easier.

I agree with Syntonic about the villain's range. He never has a set here (would raise larger to charge you for a naked diamond), but against a range of made flushes and Ax with a diamond, you should be in plenty good shape equity rise to shove this - granted, that's if you sized properly before. I wouldn't expect any fold equity, though.
QUOTE (Ninja Ace @ Wednesday, March 24th, 2010, 2:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Flops are kind of like vagina's. The wetter they are, the harder you hit them.

#6 jmbreslin

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 06:37 AM

QUOTE (KingJames @ Tuesday, January 26th, 2010, 11:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm thinking about the flop, but what's up with preflop?


It's Rush so I like to make small raises with speculative hands. No worries about giving off information with bet/raises sizes in Rush.
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#7 jmbreslin

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 06:41 AM

QUOTE (Syntonic @ Wednesday, January 27th, 2010, 1:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Well he's certainly not just bluffing. Semi-bluff at best. It could either be a better A with a diamond or a flopped flush. I doubt he would do this with just the K of diamonds.

I fold preflop.

Hmm. You have about $8 left and he has about $5.50 after the reraise with ~$1.75 in the pot. You can't really call this, because you're going to fold if a diamond hits and you're going to check the turn (most likely). Either he's drawing to a diamond and he's going to check the turn too, or you're going to have to call a bet OOP. With no reads, and based on his stack, I shove and hope that he has Ax with a diamond.


Assuming his x is bigger than my 4, I'm only a slight fav against Ax with a diamond, right? Then you have to factor in the times he has a completed flush, straight, or set, as well as the few times he might have a naked AK/AQ or something. Pretty marginal shove, no?
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#8 SwolyswoND

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 09:18 AM

I don't accept your reasoning for minraising. Just raise 3.5x (+1 per limper) with any hand you open.

Against a flopped flush or straight you have ~33% equity.
Against Ax with a diamond (x>4), you are about a coinflip, ~52% equity.
Against Ax with no diamond (x>4), you have about 90% equity if your shove is called, and obvious fold equity.
Against AA you are drawing dead, or against 44/55 you have 8% equity, but you are literally like never going to see those hands here. With card removal plus the fact that a set would raise much more on the flop, I think we can discount this.

With the shove you are risking 5.88 for a pot of $12.96 (if called). That means you are getting about 2.2 : 1 odds, and need 31.3% equity.

EZ shove.
QUOTE (Ninja Ace @ Wednesday, March 24th, 2010, 2:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Flops are kind of like vagina's. The wetter they are, the harder you hit them.

#9 rrumsey

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 02:25 PM

shove, then hate rush poker when we run into a flush
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#10 Stupidhead

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 03:47 PM

I like minraisng or 2.5x ing OTB or in the CO. I don't like doing this with 5 people to act behind. We're just asking for people to come in with speculative hands in position against us.

As played, I shove cus rush poker is stupid and I rly have no idea how to play that game.

#11 jmbreslin

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 06:27 PM

QUOTE (SwolyswoND @ Wednesday, January 27th, 2010, 12:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I don't accept your reasoning for minraising. Just raise 3.5x (+1 per limper) with any hand you open.

Against a flopped flush or straight you have ~33% equity.
Against Ax with a diamond (x>4), you are about a coinflip, ~52% equity.
Against Ax with no diamond (x>4), you have about 90% equity if your shove is called, and obvious fold equity.
Against AA you are drawing dead, or against 44/55 you have 8% equity, but you are literally like never going to see those hands here. With card removal plus the fact that a set would raise much more on the flop, I think we can discount this.

With the shove you are risking 5.88 for a pot of $12.96 (if called). That means you are getting about 2.2 : 1 odds, and need 31.3% equity.

EZ shove.


Helpful analysis, thanks.

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#12 trystero

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Posted 28 January 2010 - 06:58 AM

Swoly your numbers are off. Against flopped flushes and straights we have ~20% equity. Against a big ace (non-diamond) like AJ we're not 90%; it's like 70%.

I don't know what to do honestly, but I think we're getting it in badly when called tbh. Our equity against a range of flushes, straights, big aces both with and without a diamond, sets, and A5 is about 26%

#13 Nedok

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Posted 28 January 2010 - 08:10 AM

I think if your going to play that hand preflop, you should make a larger raise to better define the callers ranges. When you minraise like that they can have a huge ranges of hands. As played, I would just call the flop because you easily be crushed against a flush or set. He is giving us great odds to outdraw him if we are beat and we have a decent chance of being ahead so I would call. If we shove, I don't see him calling with worse except maybe an ace with a big diamond.

#14 SwolyswoND

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Posted 28 January 2010 - 09:27 AM

Mea culpa.

For some reason I did the math in my head as if we had a set, not two pair.


QUOTE (Ninja Ace @ Wednesday, March 24th, 2010, 2:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Flops are kind of like vagina's. The wetter they are, the harder you hit them.




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