205 replies to this topic

[Orion071]

Once again, a judge rules that poker is more luck than skill...In North Carolina, it's illegal to even own a poker table. Fortunately, they're not big on enforcement. I guess I'll have to stick to the internet (which is also illegal in NC)........Chance still rules poker, judge findsClub sought to open card parlor in DurhamBy BENJAMIN NIOLET, Staff WriterDURHAM -- You can bluff, know the odds of drawing a flush or learn how another player scratches his nose when he has a good hand. But a judge ruled Monday that no amount of skill can get around the fact that poker is a game of chance. And betting on games of chance is a no-no under North Carolina law.So Superior Court Judge Orlando Hudson dealt a losing hand to the Joker Club, which wanted to open a cash poker parlor in Durham.An assistant attorney general successfully argued that since the 1840s, North Carolina law has banned betting on games where the cards were dealt face down. Assistant Attorney General David J. Adinolfi II did not deny that some players were better than others, but poker was all about being lucky."You can be as skilled as possible. You can do all the statistical analysis, and you flip that card over and it means nothing. You lose," Adinolfi said. "You can't will the card to be an ace when it's a deuce."The Joker Club's attorneys argued that poker played well requires years of study, practice, self-control, and physical and emotional stamina. Witnesses talked of interpreting an opponent's nervous hand or betting small to trick the other guy into a foolish raise. They talked about decades of money they won at the poker table, a living that is just not possible at house games such as craps or blackjack.Roy Cooke, a 16-year professional poker player from Las Vegas who writes books and columns on the game, took the stand during Monday's hearing. Whit Powell, an attorney for the Joker Club, asked Cooke what might happen if the two played a single hand of poker. Cooke said Powell had a chance of winning."How about if we play 1,000 hands?""You're dead," Cooke said.The Joker Club's lawsuit was about a Cary man's fight to open a business. But the club's would-be owner, Howard Fierman, said nothing in court Monday and wouldn't comment afterward. Most of the action Monday came from the witnesses. Besides Cooke, the judge heard from a poker tournament organizer from Florida, a casino operations vice president from the Bahamas and a Morrisville chemist who studies the game.During the hearing, the witnesses scribbled notes and handed them to the lawyers as they presented their case. When the state's only witness, an Alcohol Law Enforcement Division agent, said that poker skill loses out to luck every time, the poker experts shook their heads and snickered. After a lunch break, Fierman invited the ALE agent to a poker game.Poker, particularly Texas Hold 'Em, has enjoyed unprecedented popularity in recent years after television producers found a way to show what cards each player holds. Poker can be played for cash on Internet sites and is legal in nearly 40 states, experts said Monday in court.Across the Triangle, bars and restaurants have taken to holding poker tournaments, though players compete for prizes and not cash. The tournaments are technically illegal, according to ALE, but district attorneys say the games are not a priority.Lawyers said Monday that the appellate courts have never directly addressed the legality of poker. Powell and Marcus Hill, a Durham lawyer with a penchant for wide-brimmed hats, filed the Joker Club lawsuit last year. When he came to court Monday, Hill placed on the lawyers' table more than 15 books on poker theories and strategies and a stack of poker magazines.Hudson, who said he has watched poker on television but does not play himself, asked both sides whom they thought the legislature was trying to protect when it banned games of chance. Adinolfi said lawmakers were probably thinking of the unskilled player who would lose a paycheck to a serious student of the game.Hill told the judge that the assumption only proved their case.Hudson didn't buy it. Joker Club attorneys didn't know Monday whether they would appeal.........

[happyjuggler0]

All I can say is that I hope that the lottery and (church) Bingo are both illegal in North Carolina. If not then the judge should be disbarred.

[iowa's finest]

f u c k north carolina. move to iowa/illinois you can do whatever you want

[KingAustin]

iowa said:

f u c k north carolina. move to iowa/illinois you can do whatever you want

Uh, not really.

[iowa's finest]

ugggh yeah. thats if you live in southern illinois or iowa in the country where the nearest town has about 2500 people in it not if you live in the sh it hole also known as Chicago, i wish they would just make their own state.

[Scanner313]

Orion071 said:

Hudson, who said he has watched poker on television but does not play himself, asked both sides whom they thought the legislature was trying to protect when it banned games of chance. Adinolfi said lawmakers were probably thinking of the unskilled player who would lose a paycheck to a serious student of the game.Hill told the judge that the assumption only proved their case.

You know, if some jackass can't figure out that it's not a good idea to play a game for money that they don't really understand then they deserve to be parted with that paycheck.This kind of decision just burns me up inside! Are we not intelligent beings, capable of taking care of ourselves? Why do these legislators think they know what's best for all of us? GOD I HATE THESE RADICAL CONSERVATIVE MORONS!!!Why can't they simply mandate that every card club put a plaque outside the door that reads "By partaking in the games that are played within this club you are putting yourself at risk of losing money. If you can't afford to do so then it is recommended that you either not enter, or leave your wallet in the car."Hell, cigarrettes can KILL you but they don't do anything more than put a warning label on those. The hypocrisy is just staggering!So what about the unskilled player who MIGHT lose his paycheck? Maybe after losing it he'll realize he shouldn't be playing poker. A lesson learned, even if it cost him a few dollars. Is the government going to step in if this guy needs that paycheck to pay his rent and bills but instead decides to succumb to the temptation of advertising and blow it all on a High Def. TV? Of course not, because they don't really care about where the guy's money is going. All they care about is forcing their morals on everyone else. And if it ain't right for them, it can't be right for us.I swear, sometimes I feel like we're living in freakin' soviet Russia. Are we not supposed to be FREE in this country? Am I missing something here?Sorry for the long rant, but this bruns my ass!

[DeNuts1]

Scanner313 said:

Orion071 said:

Hudson, who said he has watched poker on television but does not play himself, asked both sides whom they thought the legislature was trying to protect when it banned games of chance. Adinolfi said lawmakers were probably thinking of the unskilled player who would lose a paycheck to a serious student of the game.Hill told the judge that the assumption only proved their case.

You know, if some jackass can't figure out that it's not a good idea to play a game for money that they don't really understand then they deserve to be parted with that paycheck.This kind of decision just burns me up inside! Are we not intelligent beings, capable of taking care of ourselves? Why do these legislators think they know what's best for all of us? GOD I HATE THESE RADICAL CONSERVATIVE MORONS!!!Why can't the simply mandate that every card club put a plaque outside the door that reads "By partaking in the games that are played within this club you are putting yourself at risk of losing money. If you can't afford to do so then it is recommended that you either not enter, or leave your wallet in the car."Hell, cigarrettes can KILL you but they don't do anything more than put a warning label on those. The hypocrisy is just staggering!So what about the unskilled player who would lose his paycheck? Maybe after losing it he'll realize he shouldn't be playing poker. A lesson learned, even if it cost him a few dollars. Is the government going to step in if this guy needs that paycheck to pay his rent and bills but instead decides to succumb to the temptation of advertising and blow it all on a High Def. TV? Of course, not, because they don't really care about where the guys money is going. all they care about is their censored morals. And if it ain't right for them, it can't be right for us.I swear, sometimes I feel like we're living in freakin' soviet Russia. Are we not supposed to be FREE in this country? Am I missing something here?

The answer to that is yes. He can file bankruptcy collect welfare and enjoy his nice TV.

[Scanner313]

DeNuts1 said:

Is the government going to step in if this guy needs that paycheck to pay his rent and bills but instead decides to succumb to the temptation of advertising and blow it all on a High Def. TV?The answer to that is yes. He can file bankruptcy collect welfare and enjoy his nice TV.

Well, technically they aren't stopping him from making the bad decision in the first place. So they are cleaning up the aftermath of this dumbasses decision, not telling him he can't make it.

[BigDMcGee]

"iowa said:

ugggh yeah. thats if you live in southern illinois or iowa in the country where the nearest town has about 2500 people in it not if you live in the sh it hole also known as Chicago, i wish they would just make their own state.

Screw your cousin, tip a cow, and use crystal meth. Maybe your want to work in a seed plant, or a hog confinement factory? Southern Illinios is for you. Igrorant? Rac ist? Xenophobic? Southern Illinios is for you. My families from near Iowa city in amish coutnry, and I've driven 1 80 between the shinning beacon of the midwest that is chicago and nebraska many times as I attended northwestern, and at no time did I ever get tempted to stop in one of the many shit hole towns west of chicago in the freaking boondocks of Illinios. But at least that part of the state is the North. Down Southern Illinios way, you might as well be living in the Ozarks or the Appilancian mountains.

[Orion071]

happyjuggler0 said:

All I can say is that I hope that the lottery and (church) Bingo are both illegal in North Carolina. If not then the judge should be disbarred.

No, there is no lottery in NC and the Monte Carlo night our church used to run (pay money and gamble with chips - auction off prizes at the end) was shut down last year.

[UNCpoker]

I wonder how this is going to effect Harrah's Cherokee in North Carolina trying to get their poker room opened.

[iowa's finest]

quote from bigdmcgee:(Screw your cousin, tip a cow, and use crystal meth. Maybe your want to work in a seed plant, or a hog confinement factory? Southern Illinios is for you. Igrorant? Rac ist? Xenophobic? Southern Illinios is for you. My families from near Iowa city in amish coutnry, and I've driven 1 80 between the shinning beacon of the midwest that is chicago and nebraska many times as I attended northwestern, and at no time did I ever get tempted to stop in one of the many censored hole towns west of chicago in the freaking boondocks of Illinios. But at least that part of the state is the North. Down Southern Illinios way, you might as well be living in the Ozarks or the Appilancian mountains.)my reply- well little di ck mcgee i live in about 35 minutes NE of st louis in south ill (4hours south from chi-town) next time your coming this way give me a call, ill give you my cell phone #, and stop on by for a good old a ss kicking. i got ar-15 with plenty of rounds, so if you ever got time between getting head from your mom and fu cking your sister then stop on by.by they way UNC sucks and duck fuke, no wonder you sound like a douche bag you went to northwestern.[/quote]

[BigDMcGee]

[quote=iowa's finest]quote from bigdmcgee:(Screw your cousin, tip a cow, and use crystal meth. Maybe your want to work in a seed plant, or a hog confinement factory? Southern Illinios is for you. Igrorant? Rac ist? Xenophobic? Southern Illinios is for you. My families from near Iowa city in amish coutnry, and I've driven 1 80 between the shinning beacon of the midwest that is chicago and nebraska many times as I attended northwestern, and at no time did I ever get tempted to stop in one of the many censored hole towns west of chicago in the freaking boondocks of Illinios. But at least that part of the state is the North. Down Southern Illinios way, you might as well be living in the Ozarks or the Appilancian mountains.)my reply- well little di ck mcgee i live in about 35 minutes NE of st louis in south ill (4hours south from chi-town) next time your coming this way give me a call, ill give you my cell phone #, and stop on by for a good old a ss kicking. i got ar-15 with plenty of rounds, so if you ever got time between getting head from your mom and fu cking your sister then stop on by.by they way UNC sucks and duck fuke, no wonder you sound like a douche bag you went to northwestern.[/quote][/quote] I hope phony, empty internet threats make you feel strong like a bull, you hick.. hahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahaha. Hating on Northwestern, you're not Illini, are you? naw, proably a saluki. poor guy, I'd be bitter too. Or maybe it was from the Illlinios A &MIllinios Ag. And Meth. Ha ha ha ha ha.

[UNCpoker]

Looks like time for a ban or two!

[711Buddha]

Better stay away from Ft Bragg on payday weekends.

[iowa's finest]

illinois A&M?never heard of it.as far as i know there is no such thingim a iowa hawkeyes fan. and they are not threats. im serious.ill give you my number and stop on by

[BigDMcGee]

There is no Illinios A & M, I was just making a joke, suggesting that all southern illinoians are farming hicks, meth addicts, or both. I know that as a hawkeye, I had to spell that out for ya...

[iowa's finest]

if i give you my number make sure and give it to your mom.ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[Username]

This thread needs more love.

[BigDMcGee]

I live in washington state now. and even if I didn't, I think I just would stick with the statifaction of living a better life than you.