Another Great Day In Paradise

[All_In 0]

http://www.cardplayer.com/poker-blogs/15-r...s-a-major-angle

[hblask 1]

I wouldn't want to be the Floor Guy. There's always something like this going on.

[Balloon guy 158]

Fact is if the other guy in the hand would have been paying attention, he could have gotten more chips from DN.Why should DN be called out for asking for a clarification of the rules?I thought angle shooting was when you tried to bend the rules.

[JoeyJoJo 20]

Why should DN be called out for asking for a clarification of the rules?I thought angle shooting was when you tried to bend the rules.

By asking for a clarification of the rules, even when he knew the rules, he was hoping to get additional information about the hand based on the reaction of the player.I think that's the argument.

[Balloon guy 158]

By asking for a clarification of the rules, even when he knew the rules, he was hoping to get additional information about the hand based on the reaction of the player.I think that's the argument.

As someone else stated, there are lots of tournaments, and each one gets to write their own rules. It's a bit much to expect any single player to know every rule for every tournament.Daniel lost exactly how much he was going to lose there. I doubt he was going to call a serious raise.But it still all goes back to why would somebody in a major tournament not pay enough attention in a hand where you are holding the nuts with bets on every street, and go ahead and turn over most of his hand?He doesn't do that, none of this happens, etc.Personally I think the only dumb part of all of DN's actions was being in the hand with 34 suited drawing to a flush or a straight on a paired board with a pre-flop raiser.

[hblask 1]

By asking for a clarification of the rules, even when he knew the rules, he was hoping to get additional information about the hand based on the reaction of the player.

That's higher level thinking there.

[Pot Odds RAC 23]

OP is such a freaking troll.Here is the bulk of the article:

I am going to go out on a limb here and say Negreanu has to know the rules of poker by now. So when he raises his opponent’s river bet and his opponent thinks it was a call and begins to roll over his hand, he knows full well that it doesn’t stop the action. It may result in a warning or penalty, but the hand is not over. In fact Negreanu has the advantage because he has seen part of his opponent’s hand. Then at the end of the video Negreanu say’s “I wasn’t going to call anyway,” yeah right! The whole thing, calling the floor after he saw part of the hand was an attempt to see if his straight was good and decide if his opponent had aces up or a full house. It was a terrible decision by the floor person, clearly being pressured by Negreanu. Kind of interesting that he is helping roll out a new poker tour as an “ambassador” of PS, and he muscles the floor guy, who you can see has a PS logo on his shirt, I was truly shocked buy the whole episode. Let me know what you think.

I am going to go out on a limb here and say that Mr Winston has to know that this rule is a grey area and varies from Tourney to Tourney and even from Floor to Floor. He states that Daniel knows full well that the action isn't killed by his opponent's move. Well, guess what? It was ruled that the action WAS killed.Apparently the author thinks that because the Floor has a PS logo he is part of a conspiracy to help Daniel cheat. At the end of the Hand, the clarification from the Floor goes in Daniel's favor - the opponent showed his hand prematurely and then tried to continue action. I've always heard that you can show your hand prematurely in a Cash game - for instance to get a read on your opponent while deciding if you want to call his bet - but you cannot do this in a Tournament. Daniel saw most of the hand and apparently the guy sitting next to him saw the entire thing. In a tourney that could result in a dead hand - or POSSIBLY kill any additional action. The Floor should and DID decide.Furthermore - to imply that this is wrong you have to buy into the conspiracy theory and believe that not only is Daniel an angle-shooter, but the Floor is in on it too. In this case, if you disagree with the ruling, I'd be even more inclined to take exception with the floor than the Player asking for a clarification.Reading the comments posted by readers of the article, it appears that there is a history of bad blood between the author and Daniel. Pretty poor editorial practice for Card Player to allow this to spill into their Reporting Coverage.

[drewlovesomaha 0]

Roy Winston is the true angle shooter- he knows the last time Daniel did a parody off all the other blogs on CardPlayer and Winston got his panties in a bunch over DN making fun of his love for Borgata that a lot more people started reading Roy's blog. CardPlayer always posts the 10 most viewed blogs and Daniel's are always at the top, usually has 2 or 3 in the top 5 if he is posting regularly along with Doyle and sometimes one of Hellmuth's.Now where is the topic discussing Daniel folding a set vs. E. Froehlich????

[colonel Feathers 5]

I dont get the hell where the problem is, if the guy was rolling his cards he was just calling anyways, so danny wasnt getting faced with a reraise anyways.

[All_In 0]

OP is such a freaking troll.

LOL...considering u replied with the longest rant...

[DanielNegreanu 141]

This is a case of unhealthy obsession meeting an attempt to get more hits for one's blog.

[SuitedAces21 2,741]

Was I the only one expecting something about the greatest musician ever: Phil Collins?

[looshle 6]

Honestly DN would you have called the floor if you saw a king?that's pretty much the only way to know if its an angle or not

[Jam-Fly 8]

Honestly DN would you have called the floor if you saw a king?that's pretty much the only way to know if its an angle or not

or if DN had the nutsThe question is, WHY did you call the floor Daniel? If you saw his hand, your decision is easy (if ahead, raise. If behind, fold). The only reason you have to call the floor is if you think the other player is going for a "I'll pretend to think he just calls, show my hand, but show it in such a way that it only fully exposes one card which is half the nuts and then raise so DN will think 'gee I saw some of his hand so he must have nuts, I better fold to the reraise' and then I will win the pot with a bluff!". Seriously, you must have thought this when you called the floor, otherwise, it's an angle shoot and you were just trying to get a free showdown.

[Jeepster80125 0]

LOL...considering u replied with the longest rant...

Has anyone ever come to your defense and agreed with you that you aren't a troll?Anyone?

[Mills 0]

I honestly don't even know why Daniel feels the need to defend himself against something like this. This is such a no brainer...Though I must say, I do enjoy how the 2p2 kids goad him into angry responses... but only because it makes for good reading.Seriously though, why bother...

[looshle 6]

or if DN had the nutsThe question is, WHY did you call the floor Daniel? If you saw his hand, your decision is easy (if ahead, raise. If behind, fold). The only reason you have to call the floor is if you think the other player is going for a "I'll pretend to think he just calls, show my hand, but show it in such a way that it only fully exposes one card which is half the nuts and then raise so DN will think 'gee I saw some of his hand so he must have nuts, I better fold to the reraise' and then I will win the pot with a bluff!". Seriously, you must have thought this when you called the floor, otherwise, it's an angle shoot and you were just trying to get a free showdown.

ya but he showed an ace. the guy is not gonna put DN on a wheel or try to bluff him off a bigger ace.I think the whole problem is not that this wouldnt be a big deal if it was a random person but its DN. he's made countless posts and blogs and speeches on PAD about how showing one card makes the game better and brings it to a higher level. He always talks about how he does whats best for poker and trys to keep things in the spirit of the game and then goes ahead and does something like this.Yes, he didnt do anything "wrong" but he has seperated himself from the general poker public and is now held to higher standards, especially when he goes against everything he has argued (being able to show a card) in order to save some chips/get a showdown. The only way to really know if its in poor taste is to know if he saw a K if would have called the floor. I think it's pretty safe to say that he wouldnt have called the floor and made comments like "i want to know if his bet stands" Calling the floor only when it best suits your agenda IS NOT doing anything in the spirit of the game or doing whats best for poker. Its laughable.

[JoeyJoJo 20]

especially when he goes against everything he has argued (being able to show a card) in order to save some chips/get a showdown.

I don't think Daniel has ever argued that you should be allowed to show a card if the other players are ok with it even if it's against the rules.I think you're probably right that he called the floor simply because it helped him, but I don't see anything wrong with that since what helped him was apparently the rules of the tournament.

[Jam-Fly 8]

ya but he showed an ace. the guy is not gonna put DN on a wheel or try to bluff him off a bigger ace.I think the whole problem is not that this wouldnt be a big deal if it was a random person but its DN. he's made countless posts and blogs and speeches on PAD about how showing one card makes the game better and brings it to a higher level. He always talks about how he does whats best for poker and trys to keep things in the spirit of the game and then goes ahead and does something like this.Yes, he didnt do anything "wrong" but he has seperated himself from the general poker public and is now held to higher standards, especially when he goes against everything he has argued (being able to show a card) in order to save some chips/get a showdown. The only way to really know if its in poor taste is to know if he saw a K if would have called the floor. I think it's pretty safe to say that he wouldnt have called the floor and made comments like "i want to know if his bet stands" Calling the floor only when it best suits your agenda IS NOT doing anything in the spirit of the game or doing whats best for poker. Its laughable.

I don't actually know what the board is, so that's why I don't fully understand 'if he saw a K' comments, what was the board?

[looshle 6]

I don't actually know what the board is, so that's why I don't fully understand 'if he saw a K' comments, what was the board?

It was like A2TA5 meaning if he saw a K he knows he cant lose.

[Balloon guy 158]

It was like A2TA5 meaning if he saw a K he knows he cant lose.

I think you made a good point.And I agree with you that had DN seen the K I'm not confident he would have called over the floor.I'd like to think he would, but Loosh makes a good point here.

[looshle 6]

I don't think Daniel has ever argued that you should be allowed to show a card if the other players are ok with it even if it's against the rules.I think you're probably right that he called the floor simply because it helped him, but I don't see anything wrong with that since what helped him was apparently the rules of the tournament.

Well its the law that smoking pot is illegal but I dont agree with that law so I'm not going to start calling cops every time one of my friends starts smoking. When you are so adamant about a rule or law, when you are in a situation where what you believe is ok (i.e. people smoking pot) you dont call the cops just as much when you think showing cards is ok and then you get free information from such an act, you dont call the floor for the simple reason that you dont want to betting action opened back up again.What about people who are so anti-abortion? People devote a lot of themselves to the anti abortion movement, whether its rallies, poisoning groups trying to get laws changed. etc. What would happen if someone who put so much out there about being anti abortion accidentally got pregnant and then got one? They didnt break a rule or a law either. MY point is we're talking about critique of the person from other people in the field and whether or not they look bad. Not breaking a rule does not go hand in hand with not looking like a hypocrite.I mean hes stated countless times that showing cards makes you think on a higher level. Why wouldnt he want to do this in a big tourney? He knows the guy thought he was just calling and it was an innocent mistake. He should just use the free info he got and make a better decision. I cant imagine he thinks calling the floor and trying to know if his bet stands is in the spirit of the game and is what is best for poker, its whats best for DN.It would be different if the floor came over or if someone else called but he saw a chance to get a free showdown and tried to take it. Like i said before, it's not unethical, or really an angle shoot imo, it just goes against everything he adamantly says and makes him a hypocrit. So yea, its his right to call the floor and get the ruling right, I just dont wanna read any more blog posts about all the great things hes doing for poker and how he has its best interests at heart. People can say w/e they want. I can blog about how much I care about starving childen in Africa. I can mention it in every facet of media available to me, but if I'm not donating money or volunteering then wtf does it matter? Actions speak louder than words, and when he was put in a situation where what he was fighting for directly went against what he personally wanted at the time (the philosophy against the person) he got selfish.

[JoeyJoJo 20]

So is everyone free to show Daniel a card or two if they want?

[nutzbuster 7]

not sure if this helps or hurts...(grabs popcorn)http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-jour...&ucat=&

[Balloon guy 158]

So is everyone free to show Daniel a card or two if they want?

Only if it doesn't help him.