16 replies to this topic

[custom36]

So, I was playing bodog today and took a bad beat when my AK ran into a K-5 that hit a miracle board. Then, about 3 players at the table piped up about how I should "stop waiting for monster hands" and "stop folding all my hands" and "grow some balls."Now, I get this once in a while and it usually means I can bluff more often. I know how to play someone that thinks I'm too tight. However, after 2 of the hecklers busted out in typical fish-fashion, the other one (also the chip leader at the table) continued to believe that I suck.I had built my stack back up and was actually up when I was dealt AJ in MP2 (NL, 9-handed, blinds 0.25/0.50). I raised to $2.00 preflop and, as usual, got 4 callers, but I also got position on all of them. Flop came A-10-2 with 2 clubs. Checked to MP1 who bets $2, I raise to $7, and the chip leader check-raises me all in. I thought about it and folded. I was (and still am) fairly sure he hit 2 pair or a set.After the hand he said, "I can guarantee you had me beat. But I knew you wouldn't call that much money because you have no nuts." This, coupled with other comments he made, leads me to believe that he sincerely thinks I'm a weak player.How do I play this type of player? Do I just wait for the nuts, bet weak, and wait for a raise? Just stick to my normal game? I'm not used to being thought of as weak - this is fairly new territory for me. All insights would be helpful.

[allinbluff35]

and you wonder why I call you a nut peddler? look at how people view your playing style.

[custom36]

allinbluff35 said:

and you wonder why I call you a nut peddler? look at how people view your playing style.

:roll: Listen, while I enjoy your sarcasm most of the time, I'm not really looking for it right now. I'd really appreciate some advice on this and if you're not going to help me, then the best thing would be for you to not respond.

[KDawgCometh]

Custom36 said:

allinbluff35 said:

and you wonder why I call you a nut peddler? look at how people view your playing style.

:roll: Listen, while I enjoy your sarcasm most of the time, I'm not really looking for it right now. I'd really appreciate some advice on this and if you're not going to help me, then the best thing would be for you to not respond.

well Dave is kinda correct here. Playing an ultra tight nut-peddling style won't get you as much money as you should get. you need to call him on that hand, grow a pair and don't be afraid to make a big call

[custom36]

KDawgCometh said:

Custom36 said:

allinbluff35 said:

and you wonder why I call you a nut peddler? look at how people view your playing style.

:roll: Listen, while I enjoy your sarcasm most of the time, I'm not really looking for it right now. I'd really appreciate some advice on this and if you're not going to help me, then the best thing would be for you to not respond.

well Dave is kinda correct here. Playing an ultra tight nut-peddling style won't get you as much money as you should get

The difference is I'm not playing ultra-tight. They don't know what I'm folding. I'm getting cold cards and seeing a lot of 9-3, Q-2, 2-3, etc. I don't think any halfway-decent player is going to be looking to play those cards. That AK hand was the first one I had taken to showdown in my 10 minutes at the table, so that's all they had saw. Maybe I didn't make that clear in my original post. I'm not even seeing marginal hands at this point.

[TheIceman05]

Custom36 said:

KDawgCometh said:

Custom36 said:

allinbluff35 said:

and you wonder why I call you a nut peddler? look at how people view your playing style.

:roll: Listen, while I enjoy your sarcasm most of the time, I'm not really looking for it right now. I'd really appreciate some advice on this and if you're not going to help me, then the best thing would be for you to not respond.

well Dave is kinda correct here. Playing an ultra tight nut-peddling style won't get you as much money as you should get

The difference is I'm not playing ultra-tight. They don't know what I'm folding. I'm getting cold cards and seeing a lot of 9-3, Q-2, 2-3, etc. I don't think any halfway-decent player is going to be looking to play those cards. That AK hand was the first one I had taken to showdown in my 10 minutes at the table, so that's all they had saw. Maybe I didn't make that clear in my original post. I'm not even seeing marginal hands at this point.

What do you mean you're "not seeing marginal hands at this point"? Are you trying to imply that people think you're a nut-peddler because for the last couple-thousand hands you've had terribly bad cards? If that is REALLY TRULY all it is, what do you expect from people? Advice on how to get better cards? Fold until you have something playable.Ice

[custom36]

TheIceman05 said:

What do you mean you're "not seeing marginal hands at this point"?  Are you trying to imply that people think you're a nut-peddler because for the last couple-thousand hands you've had terribly bad cards?  If that is REALLY TRULY all it is, what do you expect from people?  Advice on how to get better cards?  Fold until you have something playable.Ice

Seriously people, if you don't know what you're talking about, just don't post.Who said anything about a couple thousand hands? We're talking about 10 minutes and a table reputation. What the hell are you talking about?I'm not looking for advice on how to get better cards, as I said earlier, I'm looking for advice about how to make the most money off of this repuation when I do actually find something to play.I don't see what's so difficult to understand?

[TheIceman05]

Pick your spots and bluff.? I'm just a little confused what you want. Somebody came over the top and you made what you thought was a good laydown. Okay, so you move to the next hand. There is absolutely NO way to make money if people think (know?) they can push you around. You don't want people firing and knocking you off hands nonstop. You gotta start making a few marginal calls when you're ahead, or you're going to be bullied. If people see you as tight-weak, they're going to run you over. So there's no real way to make money off of THAT image, other than to not be tight-weakIce

[monoatomic]

Ignore them.Why are you concerned about what other people at the table are thinking about your play. If they think you are a nut peddler then use that to your advantage. Obviously the guy had no problem pushing all his chips in with a board of A-10-X. If he's going to do that with crap hands let him. If they are avoiding you because they think you only play top ten hands then showdown a cheap bluff or two. Make a marginal call for a decent pot here and there.There really isn't any words of wisdom to get people to change the image of you at the table.

[JaysonWeber]

I just agree with people at the table, Doesn't matter what they say about me. Can't go wrong with that, they say you're a loose fish? Yup.. you're right.. And you keep playing your cardsThey say you play too tight and are predictable... Yup I am, But I make money! And you go on stealing pots from position with marginal hands etc... Long as you're playing correctly, forget about it, just tell them they're right, don't let them needle you. Ego is good at the table, in moderation ofcourse.

[custom36]

Iceman - Are you telling me you would have made the call with top pair and a good kicker? With the read I was getting, that just seems like it would be a really stupid move. Yeah, I'm willing to push back and looking for a spot to do it, but I'm not going to make a dumb move for all of my money just so that I'm not going to get "pushed around."Monoatomic - The reason I am "concerned" (I'm not even sure if that's the right word) with my table image is because I can usually play off of that and make more money. If people think I'm ultra-tight, they're more willing to bet when I check, so a check-raise would be more effective. I can also pull off more bluffs with a tight image than with a loose image. I'm not looking to change what they think of me - I'm looking to make money off of what they think of me. Thanks for the advice though, I appreciate it.

[custom36]

JaysonWeber said:

Long as you're playing correctly, forget about it, just tell them they're right, don't let them needle you.

I must really be out of it because I'm don't understand why nobody's getting what I'm saying. The point of this topic was me asking how to correctly play off of my weak image to make the most money - not to change their opinion.

[JaysonWeber]

I guess what I was getting at is, who really cares? It's good they think you're weak, you don't have to change anything. You should be playing poker based on how they play, not how they think you play, if they're re-raising you all the time because they think you're a passive little sucker, Odds are you're in there with a good hand if you raised, to push back...Just play your game, ignore them.

[Jordan]

Uhm. This is easy.Let them do the betting for you.I love trying to walk ofter tight/weak players. However, they are human and have brains. Quickly they will learn to C/C you and if you truly are against an aggressive player you should do serious damage to his roll.Or, play some weak hands for raises in position and try to take down some pots.Bleh.- Jordan

[TheIceman05]

Custom36 said:

Iceman - Are you telling me you would have made the call with top pair and a good kicker? With the read I was getting, that just seems like it would be a really stupid move. Yeah, I'm willing to push back and looking for a spot to do it, but I'm not going to make a dumb move for all of my money just so that I'm not going to get "pushed around."

I wasn't suggesting you call; I wasn't there. I was merely suggesting that if you're willing to make that lay-down each and everytime unless you have a set, you're just going to get moved off of a lot of hands. My biggest fear is a player who can make tough calls against me. I'm not saying you're bad or good or anything. I'm just saying that they see you not as "tight" but "tight-weak." If he thought you were a strong player, he would have known not to put his chips at risk against you.My advice? Even though you don't want it? Stay tight, sit back, and play the game you're comfortable with. If you notice yourself getting knocked off of too many hands, pull a Gus Hansen and gamble a little. Ice

[custom36]

TheIceman05 said:

I wasn't suggesting you call; I wasn't there. I was merely suggesting that if you're willing to make that lay-down each and everytime unless you have a set, you're just going to get moved off of a lot of hands. My biggest fear is a player who can make tough calls against me. I'm not saying you're bad or good or anything. I'm just saying that they see you not as "tight" but "tight-weak." If he thought you were a strong player, he would have known not to put his chips at risk against you.My advice? Even though you don't want it? Stay tight, sit back, and play the game you're comfortable with. If you notice yourself getting knocked off of too many hands, pull a Gus Hansen and gamble a little. Ice

Lol, sorry, I do want your advice. I was getting a little testy for a while there because today ended up being a downswing day and then I was getting hammered here along with some other stuff. I'm done playing now and talking with some friends, so I kinda feel like a jerk. Sorry man.Thanks for the insight in that post. I thought I should change my game - but apparently I was way off. I'll try to remember this next time.And you're right, if I fold that every time, I'm probably going to fold the best hand sometimes. But I had been watching this guy play and I was pretty sure I was beat. Too many times I've been playing and I've said to myself, "I think I'm beat - but I don't want to be bluffed, so I'm gonna call." Every time I do that, I see that my read was right. I've been trying to stop doing that and this was one of those times.Thanks to everyone who responded with advice - hopefully I can play better in this situation next time.

[Petoria]

Make a bluff and show it if you want to continue playing that style.If you're looking to change, then bluff and don't show. You can go ahead and C/C more often. Just know that theres a difference between ballsy and calling station.