Speedy Petey 0 Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 In my opinion it was when he failed to call a Moon's raise with the pocket fours from the small blind. You HAVE to make that call with a small pair against a guy with all those chips. Especially when you already have some money in the pot. If he would have made the call and check called the flop it would be Kopp with the monster stack on Saturday and Moon would be watching from the rail. I can't see how Moon does not loose at least most of his stack when he turns tptk then rivers trips. What do you guys think? Link to post Share on other sites
I_fold08 1 Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 2nd Link to post Share on other sites
Balloon guy 158 Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 In my opinion it was when he failed to call a Moon's raise with the pocket fours from the small blind. You HAVE to make that call with a small pair against a guy with all those chips. Especially when you already have some money in the pot. If he would have made the call and check called the flop it would be Kopp with the monster stack on Saturday and Moon would be watching from the rail. I can't see how Moon does not loose at least most of his stack when he turns tptk then rivers trips. What do you guys think?I don't understand your use of the phrase 'Have To'There is value in making the final table, and in making the final table with a big stack.the value to mix it up on speculation with the guy who has a stack big enough to send you packing is less than the other value in my book. Link to post Share on other sites
Speedy Petey 0 Posted November 4, 2009 Author Share Posted November 4, 2009 Kopp still had a lot of chips. Making a call there to see if you flop a set and just folding and getting out of the way if there is any action if you don't is a must in my book. The implied odds are too big not to and he could have afforded to call the raise and see a flop with no problem. Link to post Share on other sites
Balloon guy 158 Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Kopp still had a lot of chips. Making a call there to see if you flop a set and just folding and getting out of the way if there is any action if you don't is a must in my book. The implied odds are too big not to and he could have afforded to call the raise and see a flop with no problem.Implied odds is a phrase used by gamblers to justify bad decisions.Be less willing to use it in your arguments Link to post Share on other sites
Speedy Petey 0 Posted November 4, 2009 Author Share Posted November 4, 2009 Implied odds is a phrase used by gamblers to justify bad decisions.Be less willing to use it in your argumentsYou are kidding right? Link to post Share on other sites
nutzbuster 7 Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 lol. Link to post Share on other sites
king_tanner 84 Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 I know final table is coming up and people are freaking out, but there are like 5 WSOP threads on the front page.I dont have a problem with him folding pocket 4's. Could have got away from the 5-3 though. Link to post Share on other sites
TheWynn 0 Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Darvin Moon's comments on this hand:From Pokernews Link to post Share on other sites
Sick Boy 0 Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Thanks for putting on spoiler alert. Link to post Share on other sites
TheWynn 0 Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Thanks for putting on spoiler alert.This wasn't at the final table. Link to post Share on other sites
Balloon guy 158 Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 You are kidding right?Completely deadly seriousI there is any doubt in your mind than I want you to think about when you will be watching the ME, and realize that Kopp is doing the same thing...watching itFrom the link above:And that leads me to the next thing. I mean, people have kind of, and I’m sure Billy Kopp is kicking himself in the ear about this, quite a few times, but how do you make that hard of a play on a guy that has literally barely played a hand and has never made a move as far as anybody can see.I don’t know. I just think it was one hand. The whole tournament he played perfect poker up to there and one hand got away from him and it’s sad that it cost him $400K. He walked away with eight hundred and some thousand and could have walked away with $1.2 million. That one hand cost him.And he could probably fall asleep at the final table and make it to third or fourth with that chip stack. Link to post Share on other sites
WhatArunAA 0 Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 idk, i really feel for Billy Kopp.. it realyl was a sick spot .. I think bet folding the turn is probably the best line to take, shoving the turn is absolutely awful, nothing worse ever calls. Link to post Share on other sites
Fluffdog87 2 Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 Darvin Moon vs. Billy Kopp: The $45 Million Dollar Hand Revisitedhttp://www.pokernews.com/news/2009/11/darv...evisit-7492.htm Link to post Share on other sites
Pivvy2001 0 Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 Darvin Moon vs. Billy Kopp: The $45 Million Dollar Hand Revisitedhttp://www.pokernews.com/news/2009/11/darv...evisit-7492.htm While it is very possible he is using this interview to create a certain image for himself, Moon certainly does not make himself seem like a strong player based on that interview. Especially since he was unaware of the board in a HUGE hand and because he improperly calculated the pot size to justify his other call (which is a call I agree with, btw, but thought his math is incorrect in the interview). Link to post Share on other sites
colonel Feathers 5 Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 Im sure flames are on the way, however, if I just spent 8 long days at the ME, got myself into an almost assured final table position with 20 mill or so in chips, and I am in a pot with the only guy who can bust me,I would seriously consider folding quads to an all in bet if the board had 3 consecutive suits. Link to post Share on other sites
Balloon guy 158 Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 Im sure flames are on the way, however, if I just spent 8 long days at the ME, got myself into an almost assured final table position with 20 mill or so in chips, and I am in a pot with the only guy who can bust me,I would seriously consider folding quads to an all in bet if the board had 3 consecutive suits. What about the implied odds though?sorry Pivvy, just couldn't resist Link to post Share on other sites
colonel Feathers 5 Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 What about the implied odds though?sorry Pivvy, just couldn't resist I would be more concerned about my mental state if the guy had a straight flush. Link to post Share on other sites
Balloon guy 158 Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 I would be more concerned about my mental state if the guy had a 6 high flush.fyp for Kopp Link to post Share on other sites
colonel Feathers 5 Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 fyp for Kopp BWAAAAAAHAAAATough, but fair Link to post Share on other sites
Whatever 1 Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 The hand he went out on was a meltdown of epic proportions. Shoving when the board pairs on the turn with a 5 high flush against the only guy that can bust you when you could make ~2M by folding for 6 or 7 hours is just horrific.Not calling with the 4s was maybe a mistake but as it turns out he probably would've won a monster pot. Link to post Share on other sites
looshle 6 Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 Implied odds is a phrase used by gamblers to justify bad decisions.Be less willing to use it in your argumentsmaybe in a lot of cases it is but it is a pretty important concept that is a big part of MTT poker Link to post Share on other sites
Balloon guy 158 Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 maybe in a lot of cases it is but it is a pretty important concept that is a big part of MTT pokerI bow to your very much greater skills at poker in this regard.And I think you are right, but I think it's like a +45 battle axe from Grondoria in the hands of a 3rd level druid if you know what I mean.Anyone who understands that it's not a real number, just a possible one, can use it to their advantage for maximum use. Anyone who wants to chase gutshots thinking that catching a river 6 on a board of 457K they will get paid off with their 93 enough to justify calling three bets should instead throw the phrase implied odds right out with Shulman's ME bracelet Link to post Share on other sites
vbnautilus 49 Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 GrondoriaSigh, I had this once. Pepto bismol did not help. Link to post Share on other sites
Balloon guy 158 Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 Sigh, I had this once. Pepto bismol did not help. What were the odds?1st link to google of Grondoriaand a poker related one as well Link to post Share on other sites
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