According to science our universe has a beginning (search at “age of the universe” on pnas.org) and time is purely physical. Therefore there can be no such thing as time external to the physical universe. Timespace has a beginning.
It is a fundamental law of physics (causality) that every physical occurrence in the universe has a cause.
The fundamental laws of physics then require a cause of the universe ex nihilo (since timespace has a beginning); i.e., a Prime Cause Singularity that is non-dimensional and independent of timespace.
To conclude the above paragraphs:
Fact: No thing nor event in the known universe or laws of physics lacks a cause.
Assume: There is no Prime Cause (Creator / Singularity).
Ergo: There is no universe.
Fact: There is a universe.
Therefore: the statement that was assumed is proven to be a false statement by reduction ad absurdum (proof by disproof).
(Since "There is no Creator" is proven false, the opposite is true: There is a Creator.)
Being logically consistent (orderly), our (to say perfectly-orderly would be a tautology) orderly universe must mirror its Prime Cause / Singularity-Creator—Who must be Orderly; i.e. Perfect. An orderly—"not capricious," as Einstein put it—Creator (also implying Just), therefore, necessarily had an Intelligent Purpose in creating this universe and us within it and, being Just and Orderly, necessarily placed an explanation, a "Life's Instruction Manual," within the reach of His subjects—humankind.
It defies the orderliness (logic / mathematics) of both the universe and Perfection of its Creator to assert that humanity was (contrary to His Tor•âh′ , see below) without any means of rapproachment until millennia after the first couple in recorded history as well as millennia after Abraham, Moses and the prophets. Therefore, the Creator's "Life's Instruction Manual" has been available to man at least since the beginning of recorded history. The only enduring document of this kind is the Tor•âh′ —which, interestingly, translates to "Instruction" (not "law" as popularly alleged). (Source and further reading of how to relate to the Creator: netzarim.co.il)
The fact that the Creator is perfect implies that He isn’t self-contradictory. Therefore any religion, and all religions contradicts each other (otherwise they would be identical), that contradicts Torah is the antithesis to the Creator.
(The most common counter arguments are answered at bloganders.blogspot.com/search/label/counter%20arguments)
Anders Branderud
0
Proof For The Existence Of An Intelligent Creator
Started by andersbranderud, Oct 02 2009 12:37 PM
120 replies to this topic
#2
JubilantLankyLad
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Posted 02 October 2009 - 12:40 PM
That's Banana(s)
there were no special effects, no special effects.
#3
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Posted 02 October 2009 - 01:17 PM
QUOTE (andersbranderud @ Friday, October 2nd, 2009, 3:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
According to science our universe has a beginning (search at “age of the universe” on pnas.org) and time is purely physical. Therefore there can be no such thing as time external to the physical universe. Timespace has a beginning.
It is a fundamental law of physics (causality) that every physical occurrence in the universe has a cause.
The fundamental laws of physics then require a cause of the universe ex nihilo (since timespace has a beginning); i.e., a Prime Cause Singularity that is non-dimensional and independent of timespace.
To conclude the above paragraphs:
Fact: No thing nor event in the known universe or laws of physics lacks a cause.
Assume: There is no Prime Cause (Creator / Singularity).
Ergo: There is no universe.
Fact: There is a universe.
Therefore: the statement that was assumed is proven to be a false statement by reduction ad absurdum (proof by disproof).
(Since "There is no Creator" is proven false, the opposite is true: There is a Creator.)
Being logically consistent (orderly), our (to say perfectly-orderly would be a tautology) orderly universe must mirror its Prime Cause / Singularity-Creator—Who must be Orderly; i.e. Perfect. An orderly—"not capricious," as Einstein put it—Creator (also implying Just), therefore, necessarily had an Intelligent Purpose in creating this universe and us within it and, being Just and Orderly, necessarily placed an explanation, a "Life's Instruction Manual," within the reach of His subjects—humankind.
It defies the orderliness (logic / mathematics) of both the universe and Perfection of its Creator to assert that humanity was (contrary to His Tor•âh′ , see below) without any means of rapproachment until millennia after the first couple in recorded history as well as millennia after Abraham, Moses and the prophets. Therefore, the Creator's "Life's Instruction Manual" has been available to man at least since the beginning of recorded history. The only enduring document of this kind is the Tor•âh′ —which, interestingly, translates to "Instruction" (not "law" as popularly alleged). (Source and further reading of how to relate to the Creator: netzarim.co.il)
The fact that the Creator is perfect implies that He isn’t self-contradictory. Therefore any religion, and all religions contradicts each other (otherwise they would be identical), that contradicts Torah is the antithesis to the Creator.
(The most common counter arguments are answered at bloganders.blogspot.com/search/label/counter%20arguments)
Anders Branderud
It is a fundamental law of physics (causality) that every physical occurrence in the universe has a cause.
The fundamental laws of physics then require a cause of the universe ex nihilo (since timespace has a beginning); i.e., a Prime Cause Singularity that is non-dimensional and independent of timespace.
To conclude the above paragraphs:
Fact: No thing nor event in the known universe or laws of physics lacks a cause.
Assume: There is no Prime Cause (Creator / Singularity).
Ergo: There is no universe.
Fact: There is a universe.
Therefore: the statement that was assumed is proven to be a false statement by reduction ad absurdum (proof by disproof).
(Since "There is no Creator" is proven false, the opposite is true: There is a Creator.)
Being logically consistent (orderly), our (to say perfectly-orderly would be a tautology) orderly universe must mirror its Prime Cause / Singularity-Creator—Who must be Orderly; i.e. Perfect. An orderly—"not capricious," as Einstein put it—Creator (also implying Just), therefore, necessarily had an Intelligent Purpose in creating this universe and us within it and, being Just and Orderly, necessarily placed an explanation, a "Life's Instruction Manual," within the reach of His subjects—humankind.
It defies the orderliness (logic / mathematics) of both the universe and Perfection of its Creator to assert that humanity was (contrary to His Tor•âh′ , see below) without any means of rapproachment until millennia after the first couple in recorded history as well as millennia after Abraham, Moses and the prophets. Therefore, the Creator's "Life's Instruction Manual" has been available to man at least since the beginning of recorded history. The only enduring document of this kind is the Tor•âh′ —which, interestingly, translates to "Instruction" (not "law" as popularly alleged). (Source and further reading of how to relate to the Creator: netzarim.co.il)
The fact that the Creator is perfect implies that He isn’t self-contradictory. Therefore any religion, and all religions contradicts each other (otherwise they would be identical), that contradicts Torah is the antithesis to the Creator.
(The most common counter arguments are answered at bloganders.blogspot.com/search/label/counter%20arguments)
Anders Branderud
I hope your ready to defend this stuff... because you're about to get all that you can handle.
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#4
speedz99
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Posted 02 October 2009 - 01:33 PM
I'm pretty sure his plan was to cut & paste the passage and never return.
You got a date Wednesday, baby!
#5
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Posted 02 October 2009 - 01:35 PM
QUOTE (andersbranderud @ Friday, October 2nd, 2009, 3:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Fact: No thing nor event in the known universe or laws of physics lacks a cause.
Assume: There is no Prime Cause (Creator / Singularity).
Ergo: There is no universe.
Fact: There is a universe.
Therefore: the statement that was assumed is proven to be a false statement by reduction ad absurdum (proof by disproof).
(Since "There is no Creator" is proven false, the opposite is true: There is a Creator.)
Assume: There is no Prime Cause (Creator / Singularity).
Ergo: There is no universe.
Fact: There is a universe.
Therefore: the statement that was assumed is proven to be a false statement by reduction ad absurdum (proof by disproof).
(Since "There is no Creator" is proven false, the opposite is true: There is a Creator.)
this logic makes me want to hurt myself.
#6
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Posted 02 October 2009 - 01:42 PM
QUOTE (SuitedAces21 @ Friday, October 2nd, 2009, 1:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
this logic makes me want to hurt myself.
You'll be a happier person if you let logic like that just make you laugh.
You got a date Wednesday, baby!
#7
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Posted 02 October 2009 - 01:46 PM
FINALLY! quantitative proof of Xenu! praise Him!
QUOTE (Tactical Bear @ Monday, June 15th, 2009, 9:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Anybody who dies of Swine Flu is just a faggot.
#8
crowTrobot
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Posted 02 October 2009 - 02:29 PM
damn jewish swedes, confusing everybody : )
http://www.netzarim.co.il/Shared/Testimoni...d,%20Anders.htm
http://www.netzarim.co.il/Shared/Testimoni...d,%20Anders.htm
#9
crowTrobot
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the hands of satan assembling his flock
Posted 02 October 2009 - 02:34 PM
QUOTE (andersbranderud @ Friday, October 2nd, 2009, 1:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It is a fundamental law of physics (causality) that every physical occurrence in the universe has a cause.
false. you should put down the torah and study quantum mechanics.
#10
vbnautilus
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Posted 02 October 2009 - 02:58 PM
I agree this seems like a copy/paste never-return.
However, if you do return, OP, and show that you really intend to discuss this, I'd be happy to address it.
However, if you do return, OP, and show that you really intend to discuss this, I'd be happy to address it.
#11
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Posted 02 October 2009 - 08:49 PM
QUOTE (crowTrobot @ Friday, October 2nd, 2009, 3:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
false. you should put down the torah and study quantum mechanics.
Of course...many many things happen on thei own with no source or energy to influence it.
Like uhh... you know..things and stuff.
I use my cigar smoke as idiot repellent
"The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected." G.K. Chesterson 1900
"The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected." G.K. Chesterson 1900
timwakefield, on 18 April 2012 - 10:38 AM, said:
Things are only rights because the government decides they should be rights.
#12
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Posted 02 October 2009 - 08:50 PM
QUOTE (vbnautilus @ Friday, October 2nd, 2009, 3:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I agree this seems like a copy/paste never-return.
However, if you do return, OP, and show that you really intend to discuss this, I'd be happy to mock you through a popular game show format.
However, if you do return, OP, and show that you really intend to discuss this, I'd be happy to mock you through a popular game show format.
I use my cigar smoke as idiot repellent
"The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected." G.K. Chesterson 1900
"The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected." G.K. Chesterson 1900
timwakefield, on 18 April 2012 - 10:38 AM, said:
Things are only rights because the government decides they should be rights.
#13
crowTrobot
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Posted 03 October 2009 - 07:42 AM
QUOTE (Balloon guy @ Friday, October 2nd, 2009, 9:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Of course...many many things happen on thei own with no source or energy to influence it.
many things happen on the quantum scale that defy our intuitive notions of linear causation.
#14
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Posted 03 October 2009 - 10:01 AM
QUOTE (JubilantLankyLad @ Friday, October 2nd, 2009, 1:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
That's Banana(s)
B
A
N
A
N
A
S
- Gwen
#15
Balloon guy
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Posted 03 October 2009 - 10:08 AM
QUOTE (crowTrobot @ Saturday, October 3rd, 2009, 8:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
many things happen on the quantum scale that defy our intuitive notions of linear causation.
But since observation influences these happenings we still stuck with the reality that 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
9
9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% of the time, there is a causation for everything.
Except the creation of brazillions of metric tons of matter and an incomperable amount of energy throughout the universe.
Glad to see your worldview is based on such rock solid science
I use my cigar smoke as idiot repellent
"The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected." G.K. Chesterson 1900
"The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected." G.K. Chesterson 1900
timwakefield, on 18 April 2012 - 10:38 AM, said:
Things are only rights because the government decides they should be rights.
#16
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Posted 03 October 2009 - 10:17 AM
QUOTE (Balloon guy @ Saturday, October 3rd, 2009, 10:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I don't understand what you mean by "quantum mechanics".
Maybe we should add a new category in your Jeopardy game.
You got a date Wednesday, baby!
#17
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Posted 03 October 2009 - 10:22 AM
QUOTE (speedz99 @ Saturday, October 3rd, 2009, 11:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Maybe we should add a new category in your Jeopardy game.
Dodge: an effort to distract from the problem presented while pretending you don't need to address the flaw in your argument
I use my cigar smoke as idiot repellent
"The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected." G.K. Chesterson 1900
"The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected." G.K. Chesterson 1900
timwakefield, on 18 April 2012 - 10:38 AM, said:
Things are only rights because the government decides they should be rights.
#18
speedz99
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Posted 03 October 2009 - 10:36 AM
QUOTE (Balloon guy @ Saturday, October 3rd, 2009, 10:22 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Dodge: an effort to distract from the problem presented while pretending you don't need to address the flaw in your argument
I don't understand quantum mechanics either. And it wasn't my argument. So...yeah.
You got a date Wednesday, baby!
#19
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Posted 03 October 2009 - 10:38 AM
QUOTE (speedz99 @ Saturday, October 3rd, 2009, 11:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I don't understand quantum mechanics either. And it wasn't my argument. So...yeah.
Yea, I assumed we were talking about ...you know
I use my cigar smoke as idiot repellent
"The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected." G.K. Chesterson 1900
"The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected." G.K. Chesterson 1900
timwakefield, on 18 April 2012 - 10:38 AM, said:
Things are only rights because the government decides they should be rights.
#20
speedz99
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Posted 03 October 2009 - 10:40 AM
Oh, I know.
BEACH!
BEACH!
You got a date Wednesday, baby!
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