34 replies to this topic

[Speed Limit]

Choice and explanation.On another topic this makes me realize, where the hell has KowboyKoop been?

[timwakefield]

For whatever it's worth, Mariano Rivera should probably be on that list. Not that he would have a chance at winning - it's a 2-horse race between Greinke and Felix at this point.

[BigDMcGee]

Greinkie is god.

[Moneyball16]

Greinke, not close. Wins have too much to do with the teams offense and defense to matter and shouldn't have any bearing on who's the best pitcher.

[avsfan]

Zach Greinke becuase some time the cream rises from the very bottom.

[BigDMcGee]

Moneyball16, on Friday, September 18th, 2009, 5:07 AM, said:

Greinke, not close. Wins have to much to do with the teams offense and defense to matter and shouldn't have any bearing on who's the best pitcher.

Shouldn't, but does. More and more voters are becoming sabrmetrically aware, but too many base ball writers are old and crusty, and care about stats that don't matter, and don't watch KC games to see how awesome Zach is with their own eyes.

[timwakefield]

You guys are shortchanging King Felix. At this point it's definitely Greinke's, but not by that much.

[bigkg]

Greinke 2.31 FIP/3.33 xFIPVerlander 2.89 FIP/ 3.43 xFIPLester 3.02 FIP/3.32 xFIPHalladay 3.07 FP/ 3.16 xFIPHernandez 3.10 FIP/3.60 xFIPThose are in order of FIP, not my preference.If I had to choose I would go with Greinke.

[JoeyJoJo]

timwakefield, on Friday, September 18th, 2009, 4:55 AM, said:

You guys are shortchanging King Felix. At this point it's definitely Greinke's, but not by that much.

If by "that much" you mean, "Greinke has only been about 33% more valuable than King Felix," then, yes, I agree.The real race is the NL Cy Young.

[JoeyJoJo]

bigkg, on Friday, September 18th, 2009, 8:31 AM, said:

Greinke 2.31 FIP/3.33 xFIPVerlander 2.89 FIP/ 3.43 xFIPLester 3.02 FIP/3.32 xFIPHalladay 3.07 FP/ 3.16 xFIPHernandez 3.10 FIP/3.60 xFIPThose are in order of FIP, not my preference.If I had to choose I would go with Greinke.

Support Neutral Value AddedGreinke - 5.5Lincecum - 4.3Wainwright - 4.2Hernandez - 4.1 Lee - 4.0Carpenter - 3.9Cain - 3.6Haren - 3.5W. Rodriguez - 3.4Halladay - 3.1VORPGreinke - 79.9Lincecum - 67.7Hernandez - 64.8Wainwright - 63.4Haren - 62.7Cain - 60.9Halladay - 59.7Carpenter - 57.4Sabathia - 56.3Verlander - 54.3

[Theraflu]

Greinke deserves it, should be a good test of the writers to see how much has changed since Bartolo Colon won his undeserved Cy.Mariano is having an amazing year, but the must under-hyped season in 2009 has to be Andrew Bailey. 85ks in 78 innings, 1.95 ERA and 0.92 WHIP on an awful team. Actually, he has to be the ROTY, right? I haven't heard anything about him all year, but the numbers are pretty staggering, especially the amount he's pitched for a non-contender. On the NL side, I've just never really watched Wainwright pitch. He snuck up on me as an effective reliever in 2006, and I never consciously bought the transition to successful starter, and every year he improves. I've had the race between Lincecum and Carpenter, with Haren, Josh Johnson, and Vazquez a tick behind, but Wainwright's been as good as all of them. I hope Lincecum wins, but the lack of W's could cost him. I don't know if voters will give a guy with 15-16 wins a Cy if there's a 20 game winner there.

[bigkg]

http://espn.go.com/m...eatures/cyyoungLOL

[timwakefield]

JoeyJoJo, on Friday, September 18th, 2009, 11:33 AM, said:

If by "that much" you mean, "Greinke has only been about 33% more valuable than King Felix," then, yes, I agree.The real race is the NL Cy Young.

Touché. You with all your fancy numbers and your vorps and warp drives and whatever (grumble grumble). But yes, so far it is Greinke's. There's still 2 full weeks of season left though.

[Mercury69]

Despite a somewhat low Win total, it's got to be Greinke.One stat that in lost in the shuffle: He's only allowed 5 SB's and caught 8. You just cannot steal on this guy.Also, he's issued no IBB's and his WP total is only 5 compared with Hernandez's 15, for example. He's only hit 3 batsmen. He leads the league in Shut Outs. He's 2nd in CG's. 2nd in SO's...If they base this on Wins, they're idiots. It's easy to win 18 games for a team that will win 100 (Hi, Sabathia). It's not so easy to win 15+for a team like the Royals.Go, Zack!Also, props to Roy Halladay for another awesome season with a crap team.

[BigDMcGee]

I'm already on pre-tilt, assuming Zach isn't going to get the Cy Young. I'm hearing buzz for Felix, and CC's a yankee so he's going to get a huge chunk of the anti-statistical write-tards votes. Zach's VORP is lol good, at 88.8, 18.4 points ahead of number 2 felix, and is the forth highest since 2000. Johan 2004 89.1Big Unit 2001 90.6Pedro 2000 with...... (LOLOLOLOL) 112 (WTF!?!?!?)If it wasn't for pedro's 2000 season, he'd be in the running for the best season of the 00's, much less this year. And, just to throw in a little gratuitous Pedro knob polishing.. the gap between him and Randy (21.4), the second best performance this decade, is bigger than the difference between Felix and Zach. I mean seriously, what the fuck. If you just had a vorp of 21.4 as a starting pitcher, you'd be a middle of the rotation starter on a playoff team. There's a Chad billingsly's or Tim Wakefield amount of difference between Pedro 2000 and unit 2001. Or 2 joba chamberlains

[BigDMcGee]

So I've been gorging myself in Greinke stories, and I just read this one by Joe Pos., and I thought this point was hilarious, and true

Quote

4. He never gets to face the Royals lineup.This is more of a funny line ... but it's absolutely true. You know that wins play a big role in Cy Young voting. Well, four of the last five Cy Young winners have come out of the American League Central. Last year Cliff Lee won the American League Cy Young. He went 5-0 against the Royals. Sabathia went only 2-2 against the Royals the year before (his team was the Twins), but Johan Santana in 2006 went 3-0 against Kansas City, and in 2004 he went 3-1.

[JoeyJoJo]

BigDMcGee, on Wednesday, September 30th, 2009, 3:01 AM, said:

I'm already on pre-tilt, assuming Zach isn't going to get the Cy Young. I'm hearing buzz for Felix, and CC's a yankee so he's going to get a huge chunk of the anti-statistical write-tards votes.

Kornheiser said yesterday on PTI that Verlander can put himself in the Cy Young discussion with a great outing.There should be no discussion.Greinke has one more start, right? Can he surpass Santana and/or Johnson?

[BigDMcGee]

JoeyJoJo, on Wednesday, September 30th, 2009, 10:33 AM, said:

Kornheiser said yesterday on PTI that Verlander can put himself in the Cy Young discussion with a great outing.There should be no discussion.Greinke has one more start, right? Can he surpass Santana and/or Johnson?

Yeah, I would guess he could if he pitches lights out.

[SBriand]

I love me some Verlander and although he ended up giving up 4 runs last night,he was awwesome. He is a strike out machine and has been going long and is certainly one of the top reasons we have a shot at the playoffs. But Greinke is still the guy I would choose. Verlander has some consistency issues that immediately make me think he doesn't have a shot. He was horrid the first 3-5 starts and then he went on a tear, fell apart for a couple games, then went on a tear and then some so so baseball, little tear, ect. I can't say that I have paid full attention to Zach but pitching wise it seems he has been pretty consistent and his team just plain sucks.

[Lucky777]

I'm going with Zach Greinke. Low ERA, high strike outs. I just watched him pitch against the Red Sox this week, and he's a beast! Boston doesn't have a chump line-up either. But he made them look foolish.