15 replies to this topic

[JaysonWeber]

WeberFCP is SB with A:spade: A:club:Pre-flop:Trabitoni: Fold, brianG562: Call 3.00, gonzo81: Fold, Zales: Fold, Kanenas: Fold, BeeBop: Call 3.00, Slater17: Call 3.00, Davebow: Fold, WeberFCP: Raise 6.00, the ticket: Call 6.00, brianG562: Raise 9.00, BeeBop: Call 9.00, Slater17: Call 9.00, WeberFCP: Raise 12.00, the ticket: Call 12.00, brianG562: Call 12.00, BeeBop: Call 12.00, Slater17: Call 12.00To make that Easier, It's Capped 5-way Going to the Flop.Flop (Board: 5d, 4s, 2h):WeberFCP: Bet 3.00, the ticket: Fold, brianG562: Raise 6.00, BeeBop: Call 6.00, slater17: Call 6.00, WeberFCP: Raise 9.00, brianG562: Call 9.00, BeeBop: Call 9.00, Slater17: Call 9.00Turn (Board: 5d, 4s, 2h, Kc):WeberFCP: Check, brianG562: Bet 6.00, BeeBop: Fold, Slater17: Fold, WeberFCP: Call 6.00This Check is way too passive isn't it? Giving credit for the KK?River (Board: 5d, 4s, 2h, Kc, Jd):WeberFCP: Check, brianG562: Bet 6.00, WeberFCP: Call 6.00Re-Raise here as well?

[akishore]

yes, the turn check was extremely fish.BUT, i also didn't like the flop three-bet. with two cold-callers behind the raise on your immediate left, i would just call the raise and lead out again on the turn.i think it protects your hand more. when you lead out on the turn, you predict that the flop raiser will raise you again on the turn, so the two flop cold-callers now face two big bets cold instead of just another small bet (like with the flop three-bet).BUT if you three-bet the flop and no one caps... why the heck did you check the turn that was pretty safe??? you're really THAT scared of K-K?without any reads on the pre-flop three-bettor, he might have 10-10/J-J/Q-Q/A-K/A-Q, and only one three-bettable hand has you beat on that turn.way passive, jweb.aseem

[MrNiceGuy]

Well, the turn bettor limp-reraised preflop, so KK is at least a possibility. But I think I'd raise the turn, and slow down if he 3-bets.

[JaysonWeber]

I was obviously happy when I won the hand, But then I realized I played it WAY wrong.Aseem and Mr. Niceguy you're both right.Should value call on the flop, Bet on the turn and re-raise, If I get capped to go check/call on the river.Bleh... Coulda taken another 30 bucks off of that hand.

[KDawgCometh]

I'm leading that turn and calling a raise. LRRs really don't mean shit more often than not. Its ususally just a fish trying to think that they're a pro and doing something cool. Granted I've LRRed w/88 or 77 utg or utg+1 if only 1 caller is behind me and between the raiser or the raise come from teh BB so that hopefully I can get some dead money into the pot and isolate the BB, or at least get HU with a player behind me. So back to the play itself here's my line from the turn on: bet/call, check/call(if raised on the turn). If not raised then just keep firing

[wrto4556]

I don't like the idea of just calling on the flop and leading the turn. We have bad relative position for protecting our hand and should just raise for value.Bet the turn.

[amarillotg]

i prefer the call on the flop and a lead on the turn hoping to get raise. i wouldn't be afraid of KK unless he caps the turn. even then, i still think i would bet the river and call a raise.

[wrto4556]

amarillotg said:

i prefer the call on the flop and a lead on the turn hoping to get raise. i wouldn't be afraid of KK unless he caps the turn. even then, i still think i would bet the river and call a raise.

Why?It's not going to work.This is a results oriented thought, but what raises this turn that you have beat?Our relative position is poor and he is not guaranteed to raise. Protecting our hand is, more or less, out of the question. We should be in there betting and raising for value.

[amarillotg]

wrto4556 said:

amarillotg said:

i prefer the call on the flop and a lead on the turn hoping to get raise. i wouldn't be afraid of KK unless he caps the turn. even then, i still think i would bet the river and call a raise.

Why?It's not going to work.This is a results oriented thought, but what raises this turn that you have beat?Our relative position is poor and he is not guaranteed to raise. Protecting our hand is, more or less, out of the question. We should be in there betting and raising for value.

3 betting this flop (and risking it being capped) is just pricing everyone into this pot. there are 5 people in this pot and all you have is an overpair. i want to get rid of as many people as i can and by 3 betting the flop i think you are giving better odds to every draw possible.your right in the fact he may not raise the turn but thats a chance i take.

[Abbaddabba]

You really should stop worrying about the limp reraises at the micro limits. WHen i first started playing, i was weary of kings or aces - but ive seen that more often than not, it's just a spur of the moment donk decision while they're holding something that shouldnt even warrant a preflop call.

[wrto4556]

amarillotg said:

wrto4556 said:

amarillotg said:

i prefer the call on the flop and a lead on the turn hoping to get raise. i wouldn't be afraid of KK unless he caps the turn. even then, i still think i would bet the river and call a raise.

Why?It's not going to work.This is a results oriented thought, but what raises this turn that you have beat?Our relative position is poor and he is not guaranteed to raise. Protecting our hand is, more or less, out of the question. We should be in there betting and raising for value.

3 betting this flop (and risking it being capped) is just pricing everyone into this pot. there are 5 people in this pot and all you have is an overpair. i want to get rid of as many people as i can and by 3 betting the flop i think you are giving better odds to every draw possible.your right in the fact he may not raise the turn but thats a chance i take.

"Risk" getting it capped?? You want it to be capped. You want everyone priced in when you have a large equity edge. There isn't a solid enough way to protect our hand.

[akishore]

i agree with wrto that you want it capped on the flop--why not? you have a strong hand and are betting for value.i just figured that a call-lead might protect your hand better, but he's right--we have no guarantee that the turn will be raised (and if it's raised, what do we have beat?), and our relative position DOES suck.SSHE has a chapter on this; what to do when the flop bet is on your immediate left. it advocates calling the flop and raising the turn to protect your hand, BUT the example it gave was when you were the button (in position). in this case, we're not.still a little hazy, but i think i agree with wrto.aseem

[amarillotg]

ok, maybe my post sent the wrong message. getting the flop capped with the aces is good. no doubt about it. but in doing so every body and their uncle is now priced into this hand.my take on the best way to protect this hand was to call the flop and lead the turn hoping for the raise to force some weaker draws out facing 2 cold. sometimes it is practically impossible to protect some hands. maybe this is one of them?

[wrto4556]

It's not practicly inpossible, however, it doesn't happen enough to miss out on all the bets on the flop.

[akishore]

wrto4556 said:

It's not practicly inpossible, however, it doesn't happen enough to miss out on all the bets on the flop.

besides the spelling mistakes, great way of putting it. aseem

[JaysonWeber]

Abbaddabba said:

You really should stop worrying about the limp reraises at the micro limits.  WHen i first started playing, i was weary of kings or aces - but ive seen  that more often than not, it's just a spur of the moment donk decision while they're holding something that shouldnt even warrant a preflop call.

3/6 isn't Micro - It's Small stakes but not micro.