60 replies to this topic

[All_In]

""It's perhaps not surprising that more Republicans believe these things than Democrats," said study scientist Dr. Aaron Carroll, director of Indiana University's Center for Health Policy and Professionalism Research. "What is surprising is just how many Republicans - and Independents - believe them."


http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/200908...carereformmyths

Why do americans continue to be played for fear-mongering idiots? obviously not all, but really, some of the things they will believe (i.e. obama is not an american, but that is another topic...).

doesn't the repub party have a responsibility to stop spreading lies?

[Pot Odds RAC]

The very first line of that article is:

More than 50 percent of Americans believe a public insurance option will increase health care costs, according to a new survey on assertions the White House has called myths.

I believe that. Prove that it is a "Myth". Just because the WH calls it a "Myth" doesn't make me an idiot for believing it.

[All_In]

The very first line of that article is:



I believe that. Prove that it is a "Myth". Just because the WH calls it a "Myth" doesn't make me an idiot for believing it.

what proof do you have to support your claim?

the US currently spends more than any other country on health care, more than countries with gov health care.

[Pot Odds RAC]

what proof do you have to support your claim?

the US currently spends more than any other country on health care, more than countries with gov health care.

I won't play your game. I asked first. Prove that it is a Myth or Lie or even wrong.

I am sure you can find an Al Jazeera article somewhre with "proof"

[nutzbuster]

I love how so many libs look at any disagreement with Obamacare from an arrogant perspective of intellectual superiority.

As if the people who are disagreeing are all dumb drooling nit wits who can't think for themselves and have zero ability to look at things objectively.

Pretty insulting.

The reality is that this thing is so clear that there is really very little to debate (and what's surprising is how many Democrats hate it...this thing should have cruised through with a super majority. Does that not give any of you pause to consider how bad this thing really is?)

But...regardless of where you stand, You either love it or hate it.

And that tends to also flow along the lines of you either want to march further into socialism or you don't.



But screw all of that for now. Forget all the bullshit/truths/lies/etc.



The base of all this discontent?



Most of the angry people don't want the Government any farther us our asses than they already are. Period.



It's that simple.

[Sheiky]

I love how so many libs look at any disagreement with Obamacare from an arrogant perspective of intellectual superiority.

As if the people who are disagreeing are all dumb drooling nit wits who can't think for themselves and have zero ability to look at things objectively.

Pretty insulting.

The reality is that this thing is so clear that there is really very little to debate. You either love it or hate it.

And that tends to also flow along the lines of you either want to march further into socialism or you don't.



But screw all of that for now. Forget all the bullshit/truths/lies/etc.



The base of all this discontent?



Most of the angry people don't want the Government any farther us our asses than they already are. Period.



It's that simple.

That's exactly the kind of ideologically based un-objective logic that makes liberals think they're inttelectually superior.

It's pretty hard to respect someone's opinion on a incredibly complex subject when they blatantly show that they have no knowledge or regard for the facts and that their opinion is based solely on some warped right wing mantra of government being 100% bad.

There are reasons and arguments to oppose Obama's plan, but not many people seem to give a **** about them. Instead, they make up their opinion on his proposals beforehand then try and twist the facts (or, more aptly, completely make them up) to make them fit their ingrained belief. Like I say, it's really hard to respect people who say that the NHS would murder Ted Kennedy, that the government would pull the plug on grandma or that Stephen Hawking wouldn't have stood a chance had he been born in England.

I'm sorry, but saying 'most of the angry people don't want the Government any farther us our asses than they already are. Period. It's that simple.' and then complaining that you don't get any respect because other people view you as having zero ability to view things objectively is absurd, as you are displaying EXACTLY that characteristic.

[All_In]

I won't play your game. I asked first. Prove that it is a Myth or Lie or even wrong.

I am sure you can find an Al Jazeera article somewhre with "proof"

game?

i supplied a link that supports what i think. I also pointed out how countries with fed. healthcare spend less than the US on healthcare.

you just made up your opinion...based on what???

[akoff]

I love how so many libs look at any disagreement with Obamacare from an arrogant perspective of intellectual superiority.


Most of the angry people don't want the Government any farther us our asses than they already are. Period.

there ya have it...simple, short and to the point. Well played!!

[Pot Odds RAC]

game?

i supplied a link that supports what i think. I also pointed out how countries with fed. healthcare spend less than the US on healthcare.

you just made up your opinion...based on what???

Show me EXACTLY where in your Link it provides "Proof" that the following is subscribing to a "Myth" or Lie or Untruth or incorrect. How does the article "support" what you think?

More than 50 percent of Americans believe a public insurance option will increase health care costs, according to a new survey on assertions the White House has called myths.

[Sheiky]

there ya have it...simple, short and to the point. Well played!!

Again, good job not making yourself look intellectually inferior.

[Naked_Cowboy]

Listen OP, stop being a troll. If you wanted to actually contribute to the health care discussion, there's a giant thread about health care you could have posted this in. What you're doing here is running into the room screaming, plugging your ears and running out.

Read that other thread and it becomes very apparent that these aren't myths at all. The government of the US is more inefficient than private companies at doing the same thing. Look at a government agency's balance sheet and you understand why. Their budgets are set up to punish coming in under budget. You don't keep any money you save, so why save money?

As efficiency goes down, cost goes up. Since the currently proposed health care bill does nothing to lower the cost drivers of heath care other than the potential to reduce (ration) supply, and it can reasonably follow that the costs of the insurance processes will go up as they do in any system under government control, it defies all common sense that the current bill will reduce costs.

Now, if you'd like to have a discussion about the topic, stop trolling, read the health care topic, and i'll be happy to meet you on any point you'd like to debate there.

Here you look like one of the "idiots" you mean to attack by starting this thread.

[LongLiveYorke]

That's exactly the kind of ideologically based un-objective logic that makes liberals think they're inttelectually superior.

It's pretty hard to respect someone's opinion on a incredibly complex subject when they blatantly show that they have no knowledge or regard for the facts and that their opinion is based solely on some warped right wing mantra of government being 100% bad.

There are reasons and arguments to oppose Obama's plan, but not many people seem to give a **** about them. Instead, they make up their opinion on his proposals beforehand then try and twist the facts (or, more aptly, completely make them up) to make them fit their ingrained belief. Like I say, it's really hard to respect people who say that the NHS would murder Ted Kennedy, that the government would pull the plug on grandma or that Stephen Hawking wouldn't have stood a chance had he been born in England.

I'm sorry, but saying 'most of the angry people don't want the Government any farther us our asses than they already are. Period. It's that simple.' and then complaining that you don't get any respect because other people view you as having zero ability to view things objectively is absurd, as you are displaying EXACTLY that characteristic.

I liked this post.

[Sal Paradise]

Listen OP, stop being a troll. If you wanted to actually contribute to the health care discussion, there's a giant thread about health care you could have posted this in. What you're doing here is running into the room screaming, plugging your ears and running out.

Read that other thread and it becomes very apparent that these aren't myths at all. The government of the US is more inefficient than private companies at doing the same thing. Look at a government agency's balance sheet and you understand why. Their budgets are set up to punish coming in under budget. You don't keep any money you save, so why save money?

As efficiency goes down, cost goes up. Since the currently proposed health care bill does nothing to lower the cost drivers of heath care other than the potential to reduce (ration) supply, and it can reasonably follow that the costs of the insurance processes will go up as they do in any system under government control, it defies all common sense that the current bill will reduce costs.

Now, if you'd like to have a discussion about the topic, stop trolling, read the health care topic, and i'll be happy to meet you on any point you'd like to debate there.

Here you look like one of the "idiots" you mean to attack by starting this thread.

well I liked THIS post.

[All_In]

Show me EXACTLY where in your Link it provides "Proof" that the following is subscribing to a "Myth" or Lie or Untruth or incorrect. How does the article "support" what you think?

like i said, countries that currently have gov healthcare spend less than the US. do i have to say it a third time? what evidence can you supply that counters this?

more education to ease your fear-mongering:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_fact_check_h...GsDZmFjdGNoZWNr

[hblask]

the US currently spends more than any other country on health care, more than countries with gov health care.

There are two big lies about health care in the US that the supporters of socialism keep trotting out.

One is that there are 46 million people with no health insurance.

The other is that health care is more expensive than in other countries.

Both are easily proven false.

Take NC's advice, and read the health care thread to see why.

[All_In]

Now, if you'd like to have a discussion about the topic, stop trolling, read the health care topic, and i'll be happy to meet you on any point you'd like to debate there.

why do countries with gov healthcare spend less $$ than the US, yet can cover their citizens?

why are so many americans against providing coverage to their fellow american?

why do a lot of americans think gov is bad? why do they think gov healthcare is wrong, when ALL other industrialized nations have it?

[All_In]

There are two big lies about health care in the US that the supporters of socialism keep trotting out.

One is that there are 46 million people with no health insurance.

The other is that health care is more expensive than in other countries.

Both are easily proven false.

Take NC's advice, and read the health care thread to see why.

with all the falsehoods in these threads, i will not take what's written in another to get the truth..i may look it over if there're credible links though...

i'll start with this though.."The United States spends more on health care than any other country on the planet, about 16 per cent of gross domestic product, compared with 10 per cent in Canada. Nearly half of all that spending already passes through government hands via the likes of Medicaid and Medicare, the program for seniors."

http://www.thestar.com/article/681663

[Pot Odds RAC]

like i said, countries that currently have gov healthcare spend less than the US. do i have to say it a third time? what evidence can you supply that counters this?

more education to ease your fear-mongering:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_fact_check_h...GsDZmFjdGNoZWNr

Yes. You said that. But I asked for proof that the belief that the following is a "Myth", Lie, untruth, or even incorrect:

More than 50 percent of Americans believe a public insurance option will increase health care costs, according to a new survey on assertions the White House has called myths.

Stating that countries with healthcare spend less than the US does not constitute any proof that healthcare costs will not go up in the US under the Obama Plan. You came here accusing Republicans of lies and not being accountable. The original article does nothing to support that point of view. It does nothing to prove that the points of view are somehow "Myths", lies, or untruths. Just sitting back and accusing people of lies and fear mongering is very juvenile if you are completely unable to form a coherent argument or even present concrete facts to support your point of view.

[strategy]

why do a lot of americans think gov is bad?

because ours has made some pretty horrible decisions lately.

I would agree that it is somewhat arrogant for americans to look at other governments around the globe and criticize their policy decisions, but for THIS country, there is no question that dislike for our politicians is the rational response. in my opinion, clinton was the closest thing to reversing that trend.

I mean honestly, have you WATCHED CSPAN after 5pm or so?

[nutzbuster]

That's exactly the kind of ideologically based un-objective logic that makes liberals think they're inttelectually superior.

It's pretty hard to respect someone's opinion on a incredibly complex subject when they blatantly show that they have no knowledge or regard for the facts and that their opinion is based solely on some warped right wing mantra of government being 100% bad.

And there it is again!...you are assuming that most angry (lets call it passionate) folks have no knowledge of the facts or have not read the bill or are reacting solely because they only heard Rush's take on it .

But the reason they are angry because they HAVE read the bill and/or good portions of it, yet know they might not have any choice but to live with it. It's like being held down and told something you do not want to happen is going to happen whether you like it or not. Result??? ANGER! the anger of not having much of a say in how it turns out, and that their voices are not being heard, that they do NOT want this but have to eat shit anyway. That would piss anyone off imo...

There are reasons and arguments to oppose Obama's plan, but not many people seem to give a **** about them. Instead, they make up their opinion on his proposals beforehand then try and twist the facts (or, more aptly, completely make them up) to make them fit their ingrained belief. Like I say, it's really hard to respect people who say that the NHS would murder Ted Kennedy, that the government would pull the plug on grandma or that Stephen Hawking wouldn't have stood a chance had he been born in England.


I think that the speed at which they wanted to ram this thing through is what scared people the most, and for good reason. The Left DID NOT WANT EVERYONE TO READ IT! And now that we have read it (or most of it) it is obvious as to why. It is a BAD BILL. Let's get another thing straight...EVERYONE wants improvement with the health care. But this rush to get it done without anyone knowing what the hell was in it was stupid and sneaky, and now the public (mostly conservative and blue dogs, independants) does not trust this White House anymore, which to me is a HUGE problem going forward.



I'm sorry, but saying 'most of the angry people don't want the Government any farther us our asses than they already are. Period. It's that simple.' and then complaining that you don't get any respect because other people view you as having zero ability to view things objectively is absurd, as you are displaying EXACTLY that characteristic.


well...they don't! I don't. Big Government usually screws up far more than it doesn't.