5 replies to this topic

[DonMcCoy]

What would you say the range is for short stack tournaments, and how much would be considered for a deep stack tournament?Also, what playing styles do you tend to lean towards in each? For example, would you be more aggressive in one opposed to the other?Thanks!Forgive me if I'm lacking in any certain information that is necessary for a complete answer... Therefore, fill in the blanks. : )

[sKIjaKuDa]

DonMcCoy, on Wednesday, August 5th, 2009, 3:41 PM, said:

What would you say the range is for short stack tournaments, and how much would be considered for a deep stack tournament?Also, what playing styles do you tend to lean towards in each? For example, would you be more aggressive in one opposed to the other?Thanks!Forgive me if I'm lacking in any certain information that is necessary for a complete answer... Therefore, fill in the blanks. : )

It does really depend on the blind structure but I prefer deeper stacks as then the blinds aren't forcing your hand as much in the beginning. In a shorter stack, aggression would be better to build a buffer but it will always depend on your cards.

[DonMcCoy]

sKIjaKuDa, on Wednesday, August 5th, 2009, 2:51 PM, said:

It does really depend on the blind structure but I prefer deeper stacks as then the blinds aren't forcing your hand as much in the beginning. In a shorter stack, aggression would be better to build a buffer but it will always depend on your cards.

Yeah, my question probably didn't clarify everything that I wanted to know... So, in the average tourney (I don't want to get into blind specifics).... What starting chip count (on average) constitutes a "deep stack" tourney?

[00Lenny]

DonMcCoy, on Wednesday, August 5th, 2009, 6:02 PM, said:

Yeah, my question probably didn't clarify everything that I wanted to know... So, in the average tourney (I don't want to get into blind specifics).... What starting chip count (on average) constitutes a "deep stack" tourney?

There isn't any specific number that qualifies a tournament as "deep" stacked, really. It's all relative to the blinds. The only online tournaments that I can speak to with experience are the PStars ones, where you generally start with 1500, 2000 or 3000 chips with blinds at 10/20 and no ante. So you're starting with 75/100/150 big blinds in your stack, respectively. I'm not sure if there's a general consensus on what constitutes a "deep" stack in big blinds, but I *THINK* 100+ is generally considered to be deep. The other thing to think about is how quick the levels are. If you're in a turbo, the levels are only 5m, so you have to keep in mind that with 3000 chips you have 150BB's, but that number drops quick as the blinds go to 15/30, 20/40, 25/50 and so on.I wouldn't really say there is such a thing as a "short-stack" tourney. The idea is that the deeper the stacks, the longer the levels, the larger a role skill plays in the tournament as opposed to luck. Except for those $.01 hyper-turbos on PStars (500 chips to start, 25/50 blinds, it's all-in or fold from the get-go).

[DonMcCoy]

00Lenny, on Wednesday, August 5th, 2009, 6:34 PM, said:

There isn't any specific number that qualifies a tournament as "deep" stacked, really. It's all relative to the blinds. The only online tournaments that I can speak to with experience are the PStars ones, where you generally start with 1500, 2000 or 3000 chips with blinds at 10/20 and no ante. So you're starting with 75/100/150 big blinds in your stack, respectively. I'm not sure if there's a general consensus on what constitutes a "deep" stack in big blinds, but I *THINK* 100+ is generally considered to be deep. The other thing to think about is how quick the levels are. If you're in a turbo, the levels are only 5m, so you have to keep in mind that with 3000 chips you have 150BB's, but that number drops quick as the blinds go to 15/30, 20/40, 25/50 and so on.I wouldn't really say there is such a thing as a "short-stack" tourney. The idea is that the deeper the stacks, the longer the levels, the larger a role skill plays in the tournament as opposed to luck. Except for those $.01 hyper-turbos on PStars (500 chips to start, 25/50 blinds, it's all-in or fold from the get-go).

I like your answer, and I guess I'm expecting too much (just like a noob, LOL!). It can't be easily answered. I'm reading Daniel's "Power Hold'em Strategy", and am trying to understand the difference between a deep vs. short-stack is. (So far) he continuously talks about the small-ball strategy and how it relates to deep-stack, and hasn't mentioned (yet to my knowledge... I haven't finished reading the book yet) anything other than deep-stacked tournaments. I appreciate your answer, and your time... Thank you very much.

[Yankeefanx23]

00Lenny, on Wednesday, August 5th, 2009, 7:34 PM, said:

There isn't any specific number that qualifies a tournament as "deep" stacked, really. It's all relative to the blinds. The only online tournaments that I can speak to with experience are the PStars ones, where you generally start with 1500, 2000 or 3000 chips with blinds at 10/20 and no ante. So you're starting with 75/100/150 big blinds in your stack, respectively. I'm not sure if there's a general consensus on what constitutes a "deep" stack in big blinds, but I *THINK* 100+ is generally considered to be deep. The other thing to think about is how quick the levels are. If you're in a turbo, the levels are only 5m, so you have to keep in mind that with 3000 chips you have 150BB's, but that number drops quick as the blinds go to 15/30, 20/40, 25/50 and so on.I wouldn't really say there is such a thing as a "short-stack" tourney. The idea is that the deeper the stacks, the longer the levels, the larger a role skill plays in the tournament as opposed to luck. Except for those $.01 hyper-turbos on PStars (500 chips to start, 25/50 blinds, it's all-in or fold from the get-go).

Full Tilt has them. There are $3.50, $7.50, $14.00 and up single and multi sng's where the players all start out with 300 in chips with blinds at 15/30. Pre-flop shoves here are typical from the opening hand on with hands as bad as small pairs, A-rag, K-rag. Ive been using the AQ and up and TT up as a start, depending on position and # of players shoving in early. usually easy to double up early here, problem becomes maintaining your stack against short stack players constantly shoving -EV who are going to hit eventually and take a chunk out of you. I mostly stay away from these types of sng's.