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**official** Environmentalists Do The Dumbest Things Thread


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#281 BaseJester

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 05:00 AM

Peak Helium

Reactions, science guys and balloon guys?
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#282 Balloon guy

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 01:38 PM

Been aware of this for a couple years.

Prices just jumped 50% a couple months ago.

Obviously not a good thing for my business.
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#283 brvheart

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 01:48 PM

View PostBalloon guy, on 23 September 2012 - 01:38 PM, said:

Been aware of this for a couple years.

Prices just jumped 50% a couple months ago.

Obviously not a good thing for my business.

It certainly won't hurt the balloon "drop" business.

View PostiZuma, on 20 August 2012 - 11:32 AM, said:

napa I was jesus christing suited, you guys just slipped in before me.

View PostEssay21, on 25 February 2013 - 08:32 PM, said:

.

#284 SilentSnow

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 10:51 AM

View Postcolonel Feathers, on 22 September 2012 - 02:38 PM, said:

Ok, assume there is man caused global warming. Without spouting the usual cliches and bumper sticker sayings, what precisely is the remedy. And if the entire world doesnt get behind the remedy, wats the point/

Well if we really wanted to stop global warming we'd have to reconstruct society from the ground up. Since that will never happen we will just have to do what we can to limit the damage to "incredibly expensive" rather than the "biblical destruction" level.


So here is what we should be doing-


-Focus all of our efforts on reducing coal use. Oil and natural gas pollute a lot also, but it is impossible to eliminate them since they are too important. At best we can try to reduce the emissions from their use as much as possible.
However, coal is easily the worst energy source we use. We have enough other options that we should be able to eliminate it entirely if we wanted to.
-Do everything we can to capture the carbon emitted from smokestacks and tailpipes. Currently we have technology that could do a much better job of this than we do now.
-Strongly encourage wind, solar and energy efficiency projects.
-Make efforts to greatly increase fuel efficiency in autos and also replace as much of the fleet as possible with electric vehicles.
-Build decent mass transit where populations are dense.
-Fund any research that has a reasonable chance of improving energy efficiency or sustainable energy generation.
-Do not do a cap and trade. Given the current political environment it would just end up being a massive giveaway to big corporations.
-As of right now all sequestering and geoengineering efforts look like they will be complete failures. Continue research on these but don't expect much.
-Change utility rules to make it easier for people to generate their own solar power.
-Eliminate the ethanol subsidies. Even though it has nothing to do with environmentalism, this massive scam hurts the chances of other good energy projects getting implemented.
-Do what we can to make our political system more democratic. As long as our government is owned by the rich, and the rich see global warming as an economic problem that they are immune to, then nothing much is going to be done.
-Publicize research on global warming. The average person is amazingly uninformed about global warming and has no idea about the damage it can potentially cause.


-Do a carbon tax to fund all of this. Base it on actual carbon emitted and not something less direct so efficiency would be encouraged.

As for other countries, we can't possibly expect them to do anything until we make a reasonable effort first. As of right now we are doing almost nothing. If we ever start doing something about global warming we could then start tying future trade agreements and economic incentives to lesser-developed countries reducing their emissions.

Even if you have managed to completely ignore all of the evidence and deny global warming, we really need to be doing all of these things anyways(except eliminate coal) to ameliorate the damage that peak oil is going to cause. Although I suppose that the same people who deny global warming would also deny peak oil. However, unlike climate change, peak oil will hit in the next couple decades and will be much harder to deny.

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#285 Balloon guy

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 02:59 PM

Quote

-Strongly encourage wind, solar and energy efficiency projects.

Which is it?

Solar and wind
or
Energy efficient?
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#286 SilentSnow

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 04:06 PM

View PostBalloon guy, on 25 September 2012 - 02:59 PM, said:

Which is it?

Solar and wind
or
Energy efficient?

I guess I should be happy you read to the 10th line.

You can do both. They are separate things. We currently waste a huge amount of energy.

It's hard to say exactly how efficient each energy source is since each industry or advocacy group comes up with different numbers. It is likely that solar trails significantly behind the others(with various groups claiming to be able to significantly reduce its cost), but wind seems to be approaching parity with oil/gas/nuclear/coal. Still, since we are going to run out of each of those energy sources in the next century(nuclear is only sustainable if we switch to breeder reactors) then we can either develop wind/solar or have our economy collapse. Besides, given all of the energy we waste currently, it could be considered an efficient investment to use todays oil to produce wind turbines since tomorrows' oil will be vastly more expensive.

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#287 Balloon guy

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 04:19 PM

We have huge wind farms in m area, they are almost completely inadequate.

If we covered every square inch of land in Southern California with wind mills, we would not be able to handle the electrical needs of the area.

Without government granting huge tax incentives AND forcing SoCal Edison to buy the electricity at a higher cost than they can make it themselves, there would be no windmills.

Solar is a similar non-issue.


There may/will be an alternative to oil and coal, but wind and solar are not it.

Funny but there was recently a story about the environmentalist stopping the installation of solar farm because it would disturb the land ( desert )
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#288 colonel Feathers

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 07:52 PM

View PostSilentSnow, on 25 September 2012 - 10:51 AM, said:

Well if we really wanted to stop global warming we'd have to reconstruct society from the ground up. Since that will never happen we will just have to do what we can to limit the damage to "incredibly expensive" rather than the "biblical destruction" level.


So here is what we should be doing-


-Focus all of our efforts on reducing coal use. Oil and natural gas pollute a lot also, but it is impossible to eliminate them since they are too important. At best we can try to reduce the emissions from their use as much as possible.
However, coal is easily the worst energy source we use. We have enough other options that we should be able to eliminate it entirely if we wanted to.
-Do everything we can to capture the carbon emitted from smokestacks and tailpipes. Currently we have technology that could do a much better job of this than we do now.
-Strongly encourage wind, solar and energy efficiency projects.
-Make efforts to greatly increase fuel efficiency in autos and also replace as much of the fleet as possible with electric vehicles.
-Build decent mass transit where populations are dense.
-Fund any research that has a reasonable chance of improving energy efficiency or sustainable energy generation.
-Do not do a cap and trade. Given the current political environment it would just end up being a massive giveaway to big corporations.
-As of right now all sequestering and geoengineering efforts look like they will be complete failures. Continue research on these but don't expect much.
-Change utility rules to make it easier for people to generate their own solar power.
-Eliminate the ethanol subsidies. Even though it has nothing to do with environmentalism, this massive scam hurts the chances of other good energy projects getting implemented.
-Do what we can to make our political system more democratic. As long as our government is owned by the rich, and the rich see global warming as an economic problem that they are immune to, then nothing much is going to be done.
-Publicize research on global warming. The average person is amazingly uninformed about global warming and has no idea about the damage it can potentially cause.


-Do a carbon tax to fund all of this. Base it on actual carbon emitted and not something less direct so efficiency would be encouraged.

As for other countries, we can't possibly expect them to do anything until we make a reasonable effort first. As of right now we are doing almost nothing. If we ever start doing something about global warming we could then start tying future trade agreements and economic incentives to lesser-developed countries reducing their emissions.

Even if you have managed to completely ignore all of the evidence and deny global warming, we really need to be doing all of these things anyways(except eliminate coal) to ameliorate the damage that peak oil is going to cause. Although I suppose that the same people who deny global warming would also deny peak oil. However, unlike climate change, peak oil will hit in the next couple decades and will be much harder to deny.
Looks great on paper, but its funny that you admit reconstucting society from the ground up wouldnt be feasable, then you went on describing the rsconstructing of society from the ground up. Personally if I really believed warming was a problem my first step would be to start amassive constructing project of nuclear plants.
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#289 akoff

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 02:14 AM

View PostBalloon guy, on 25 September 2012 - 04:19 PM, said:

We have huge wind farms in m area, they are almost completely inadequate.

If we covered every square inch of land in Southern California with wind mills, we would not be able to handle the electrical needs of the area.

Without government granting huge tax incentives AND forcing SoCal Edison to buy the electricity at a higher cost than they can make it themselves, there would be no windmills.

Solar is a similar non-issue.



There may/will be an alternative to oil and coal, but wind and solar are not it.

Funny but there was recently a story about the environmentalist stopping the installation of solar farm because it would disturb the land ( desert )

this is spot on, i have been involved with these as a contractor. i have also researched building a solar farm as an investor, no matter how you spin the math without government rebates and credits they just don't work. Someday in the future maybe but not now or in the foreseeable future...maybe some of the colleges should work on this instead of researching what kind of hair a baboon has on his ass.
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#290 akoff

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 02:17 AM

View Postcolonel Feathers, on 25 September 2012 - 07:52 PM, said:

Looks great on paper, but its funny that you admit reconstucting society from the ground up wouldnt be feasable, then you went on describing the rsconstructing of society from the ground up. Personally if I really believed warming was a problem my first step would be to start amassive constructing project of nuclear plants.

From a client of mine who used to build Nuclear plants in the 70's and early 80's there are approx 25 plants in various states of construction that were moth balled for future. i didn't do the research on this but he has been a guy over the years that typically is correct when he tells you something.
"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America 's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the US Government cannot pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government's reckless fiscal policies. Increasing America 's debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that, "the buck stops here.' Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better."
~ Senator Barack H. Obama

#291 Balloon guy

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 09:05 AM

Cherokee Nuclear Power Plant
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#292 colonel Feathers

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 01:01 PM

View PostBalloon guy, on 26 September 2012 - 09:05 AM, said:

There was a plant built on long ISLAND ny, iT WAS WITHIN DAYS OF producing enuf power tp light up half of Long Island, then a newly elected governor who saw the China syndrome on tv, along with environmental weenies decided to mothball the place. Rate payers are now still paying the cost of the plant . Their bills are the highest in the nation, And coal is the main source of power. Well done libs.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoreham_Nuclear_Power_Plant

actual story.
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