Vinny_Barberino, on Wednesday, July 8th, 2009, 10:42 PM, said:
Agreed. I seriously think that was a dumb concept, get used to stacking off light? I am coming to grips with the fact, that there may be no "right" way to play this hand, and a lot of that had to do with whatgreatis's thoughts about getting extra value from the hand. I still think c/b is my way of playing it, because I feel more comfortable not guessing and get the easiest value... But... I did not take JJ into a pot three-bet preflop, OOP, and say "boy, theres a king, I better get in 'stack off light' mode"
There's a right way to play this hand. It is checking the flop and calling. Ryan wasn't saying you hafta stack off light and trap with JJ, the point was, what is villain's range to bet flop, bet turn, bet river. He's repping some really narrow shit with that line. When people rep very narrow ranges on drawy boards, well it's usually a call but it's villain dependent. You're not always calling off here, you aren't usually calling off here, but it has to be a possibility.The only think betting JJ here does is make the hand easier to play, but it makes it less +EV to play. Until you start putting yourself in uncomfortable situations where you have to think about what villain is repping and how his bet sizing correlates with it, you won't improve by just waiting for big mistakes. These are little spots that make a dramatic difference in your development as a player.The EV between betting here and c/c a few streets is probably small. It's the concept behind it that makes it really big.
Fade2241, on Thursday, July 9th, 2009, 11:51 AM, said:
I understand that people want to be cautious but I haven't heard anyone talk about protecting our hand yet, what gives? I know there are better NL cash players than me here so maybe someone can explain it to me. The logic isn't quite registering in my thick head yet. :)IMO You are ahead of a lot of the caller's range (AQ-A10, QJ, 99 + other random pockets etc) and checking down gives the villain a chance to catch up for free.
I tried to cover this earlier, but maybe I didn't write it well or you disagree. Betting for protection is kind of whack in the first place, but we have to do it sometimes. We have 55 on a K826 board, sometimes we're betting the turn here (if we checked flop) for protection against any over card to a 5 that wouldn't call a bet or bluff, so no reason to let him draw for free.In this hand we have JJ on a KTx two spade board and we're OOP in a 3bet pot. What kinds of hands do we bet for protection against? Over cards that won't bluff and won't call with worse. Every overcard combo in villains 3bet calling range has either top pair, middle pair, straight draw, or gutshot + over cards. We aren't folding anything by betting. He's literally calling with all of those hands, so we didn't protect against anything. All we did was fold the very bottom of his range which was air. That's never a good result, we want his range to be as weak as possible in this situation.