16 replies to this topic

[BigDMcGee]

I don't have a hand histroy, 'cause this happened in a live four/ eight game, so I can't convert it.. but I remember it like it was yesterday... here's the handUTG limps, UTG+1 limps ( me) fold fold, small blind calls, big blind checks ( short handed table)flop(5 sb)4 6 7 rainbowSB checks, BB Checks, UTG checks, I bet, small blind folds, big blind raises, UTG calls, I callturn(5.5 BB)6 ( don't remember if this changes the suitedness of the board..)SB checks, UTG checks, I check...I think that this check is very, very strange, as the 6 should have helped any hand that the BB check raised with.. it helps over pair, two pair unless they have 4 7, a set.... I know this guy really well, and I know that he would have bet out with any real made ahnd, unless he had somethign jsut huge, like quad sixes, and even then I don't htink he'd check.. this is when bells start going off in my head..river (2) no flush (5.5 BB)Bb bets, UTg folds.....I think for a long time... (I'll explain what I was thinking about later)I callguess the hands..

[Abbaddabba]

He had 8/9 for the open ended straight and you called him down with something absurd like jack high.

[BigDMcGee]

Alright, I can't wait anyto say any longer.. SPOILER..When I call him, he taps his cards, and says.. You got me, I can't win..Not wanting to show my hand, since it's such a marginal call, I say" Then muck your hand, I called you..." and he says If you can't beat this, then you've got problems.. and rolls over "89"I say "that's exactly what I thought you had... " and I rolled over J 8, and scoop the pot.. the dealer, a friend of mine, and the only good poker playing dealer I've ever met said "what the hell!" and the guy goes "Okay what ever.. keep calling me down with that.. and then tilts off like 300 dollars.. I've never called someone down with jack high before, but here's my thinking..I was dead certain after his turn check, that he either had quad sixes, or was on a draw.. there was no other possible hand he would have checked on ( knowing THIS player.. I've played with him80 hours at least in my life) and since there was no flush draw out there, I thought he had to be a straight draw.. and if he was a straight draw, he almost had to be 89 or 10 8.. My dealer friend later said I should have raised, and I said.. no, I shouldn't have.. there's no better hand he could possibly have that he would fold, he's not in there with KQ or AK or some missed flush draw. they only way I have him beat is if he missed a draw, and the only way he'll fold if I raise is fi he missed a draw, a draw I can already beat! I thought there was a better than 1 in 6.5 chance that he had a missed straight draw, and I was good.. Like I said, I have never made a call like this before, and when I did it, I was just amazed with myself, at my ablity to analyis the situation, and make the right read.

[BigDMcGee]

"Abbaddabba" said:

He had 8/9 for the open ended straight and you called him down with something absurd like jack high.

We have awinner.. but I don't think it was an absurd call at all..

[PrtyPSux]

good call,

[NickTheKid]

Okay, we now have a new hand McGee... The... Jugglar! You gotta mimmick a juggle, and can only use it for the Jack-High! :wink:

[TheIceman05]

You would have been pissed if he'd been in there with something like the Ace5 open ender.Ice

[RISEorFall]

TheIceman05 said:

You would have been censored if he'd been in there with something like the Ace5 open ender.Ice

That's the first thing I thought he would've had. You got lucky as censored he didn't have something like 4-5 giving him a pair and a straight draw - which would've been a pretty good check/raise hand that would've slowed down after the 2nd 6. The pot's too small to be messing around with. I wouldn't even bet out on this flop, even though everyone checked, because you only had Jack high and this is a great check/raising flop. Plus anyone with a pair isn't going to think you hit one with whatever you would've limped in from UTG+1 is, unless you're really loose. I think you did a good job of thinking through the hand, but you only thought through the part of the hand that would've given you the pot, and you got really lucky. Imagine how stupid you would've felt if you called with Jack high and he showed A high, and you had to muck.

[Patricnz]

i made a jack high call down on a guy who had 8 high and was representing strength and i got falmed for how absurd it was when i was dead on with my read.just saying...

[BigDMcGee]

This guy would not have check raised with ace high. it's not a play he would make.. ace five maybe, maybe... but I've played with this guy for so long, I had a really good read on his play.. it was his check on the turn that really had me confused.. if he had five four, he would not have bet on the river, he just would have checked... You say I had no pot odds.. I didn't htink so.. I thought there was about a50 perecnt chance he hand absolutely nothing, about a 25 perecnt chance he hand quad sizes, an a 25 percent chance he had some other hand that I miss read, like maybe five four.. but the way he acted, just screamed that he had a missed draw.. you can call this a shit call, but I thought it was dead ****ing on... not to sound absurd to compare My self to him, but Doyle in SS talks about a call he made with jack high against Moss... and was right..I've never made acall with jack high before, or since.. but some times.. you have someone put exactly on a hand.. and you have to go with your gut... I thought this guy had a missed straight draw, that's what I put him on, and I could beat a missed straight draw ( unless he had 5q, 5 k or 5 A, but I don't think he would have check raised with that hand.. he check raises with over card straight draws, but not something like ace five.. I might be wrong about that, and he could have had 5x, but that's not what I thought he had..)I can't explain it, but it obviously wasn't a bad call...

[BigDMcGee]

at all, because I still would have thought the proablity of Me having him beat was right... you say the pot was too small.. I just don't think so.. you say not to bet.. it's a ragged flop, I have two overs and a gut shot.. in position, I'm going to bet every time if checked to me.. the game was six handed, and passive, I was about the only one raising pre flop. No one but me had made the preflop raising adjustment for 6 handed play, so I don't think this was a typical utg +1 situation for my jack eight suited.. maybe a little loose, but I wasn't afraid, I had a good handle on the table. IF he had bet on the turn, he would have won that pot.. but there was just no hand that he would check raise on, i felt, that the six pairing wouldn't help. There was no reason he would check, unless he had a draw and a draw only. This guy eitehr check raises with power houses, or great draws.. he doesn't do it even with top pair, espeacilly a ragged pair.. he would have bet out.. but not check raised

[RISEorFall]

did you put the guy on 8 high? Or was it like the board had AKQ and you just thought the guy was bluffing? In this case, the draw the guy could've been on has lots of ways to have J high beat. He made a good thought analysis, but he made the biggest mistake people often make when thinking through a hand. They figure it out so that they have the best hand because they want to win the pot. He got lucky here, in my opinion, to have the best hand. Until I know what happened when your J high was good I think it was lucky your J high was good too.

[BigDMcGee]

because I described what the board was.. it was NOT AKQ...... it was 76462...I analized the way he bet the hand, and i put him on one of two hands.. either 98 withe an open ender, or 8 10 with a double gutter.. no other hands he could possibly have, in my mind, made any sense from the way he bet his hand.. it wasn't that I WANTED my jack high to be good, it's because I thought there was an exceleent chance it was, good more than 1 out of 6.5, so I felt I had to call. I could have bene wrong, yes. But I thought his bet pattern fit a bluff, and a bluff I could beat. Flame me all you want, but I'm 1 for 1 with my jack high calls, and I think it was an amazing read on my part.

[BigDMcGee]

"XXEddie" said:

"Patricnz" said:

i made a jack high call down on a guy who had 8 high and was representing strength and i got falmed for how absurd it was when i was dead on with my read.just saying...

hes getting plamed because this WAS indeed a horrible callpot odds were 6.5-1 or 13-2Is J high going to be good here 2 outtta 13 times, NO!what if he missed a str8 draw with A5what if he was "bluffing" with A high K high Q high, or a better kicked J.I :clap: him for a terrific call and read, but this isnt going to be profitable in the lond run

This isn't a play I'm telling you to make in the long run, calling people down with jack high.. is is about when you have someone's play figured out, and you go with your gut. He was not the type of player to make a anked bluff with ace king on that kind of board. he only check raises on good draws, or huge hands.. this is a player I've played with MANY hours... many, many many. I was confident that jack high would be good one out of 6 and a half times, based on his action.. based on the way he bet. No other hand made sense.. I admit, he might have had ace five.. but if he had ace five, I really don't think he would have check raised.. I think that the two likely drawes he would have are 89 and 10 8, a open ender and a double gutter.. I don't think with just ace five he would have check raised, but maybe.. So I put him on having one of four hands.. Quads, ace five, 89 and 108.. I think 10 8 and 89 eight are the most proable, so I call. I can't beleive everyone is flaming what I think was an amazing call based on the way I Analyized his play..

[RISEorFall]

BigDMcGee said:

because I described what the board was.. it was NOT AKQ...... it was 76462...

wasn't talking about your board. Patricnz or something said he made a call with J high. I don't know what his board was. If it was AKQ and you had J high and just thought the guy was absolutely bluffing, then a call with J high.