http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/29/world/eu...ml?_r=1&hpw
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Socialism Is Wonderful
Started by brvheart, Jun 28 2009 07:08 PM
81 replies to this topic
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Posted 28 June 2009 - 07:08 PM
CAPITALISM: God's way of determining who is smart and who is poor. - Ron Swanson ---> Video:Ron's Pyramid of Greatness Picture: Poster Size
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Posted 28 June 2009 - 07:54 PM
QUOTE (brvheart @ Sunday, June 28th, 2009, 9:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The NYT apparently doesn't let us read anymore without registering, and I'm too lazy to do that right now.
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Posted 28 June 2009 - 07:57 PM
MOSCOW — One of the largest mass layoffs in recent Russian history is to occur on Wednesday, and the Kremlin itself is decreeing it, economic crisis or not.
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The government is shutting down every last legal casino and slot-machine parlor across the land, under an antivice plan promoted by Vladimir V. Putin that as recently as a few months ago was widely perceived as far-fetched. But the result will be hundreds of thousands of people thrown out of work.
And in a move that at times seems to have taken on almost farcical overtones, the Kremlin has offered the gambling industry only one option for survival: relocate to four regions in remote areas of Russia, as many as 4,000 miles from the capital. The potential marketing slogans — Come to the Las Vegas of Siberia! Have a Ball near the North Korean Border! — may not sound inviting, but that is in part what the government envisions.
All the same, none of the four regions are prepared for the transfer, and no casino is expected to reopen for several years. As of July 1, not even two decades after casinos began proliferating here in the free-for-all post-Soviet era, the industry’s workers will be out on the street.
“This is shaking my life to the core — such a blow for me and my family,” said Irina Mysachka, 32, a single mother who is a supervisor at the Shangri-La Casino in Moscow, which appears as orderly and preened (if your tastes run to fire-breathing neon dragons and other Oriental kitsch) as any similar luxury attraction in the United States.
“The authorities are taking this step without thinking at all,” she said. “They have not considered what this decision means for the workers. With the crisis, it is going to be very difficult for us.”
Unable to find a job in Moscow, she said she was going to leave her 5-year-old son, Yegor, with her mother and venture abroad.
Aleksandr Osin, 24, who has been at Shangri-La for five years, said he would try his luck in the insurance business, but was not hopeful. “We all thought that this was some kind of government thing that would not happen,” he said. “But now we know.”
The law that started the whole process was introduced in 2006 by Mr. Putin, then the president and now the prime minister, who spoke of the perils of the blackjack tables and the one-armed bandits, of shady characters having a grip on the industry.
The casinos have repeatedly asked for a reprieve, proposing a regulatory body to cut down on abuses, and lately pointing out that the ban would create hardships for workers during the crisis. The industry has also said it pays more than $1 billion a year in taxes. But Mr. Putin and his protégé, President Dmitri A. Medvedev, have not yielded. “The rules will not be revised in any way,” Mr. Medvedev said last month, “and there will be no backsliding, although various business organizations have been lobbying for precisely this.”
The gambling industry here does not have the loftiest of reputations, and many Russians will not grieve for it. Still, many of the 40 or so casinos in Moscow sought in recent years to behave more respectably, even as hundreds of slot-machine parlors retained a seedy, enter-at-your-own-risk feel.
The gambling industry says the ban will leave more than 400,000 people without work in Russia, at a time when it has been hard hit by the economic downturn: the World Bank predicts the economy will contract by 7.9 percent this year. The government has put the figure at 60,000 people, though industry analysts say that is absurdly low.
Storm International, a gambling conglomerate controlled by a British expatriate, Michael Boettcher, said that until recently, it alone employed 6,000 people at Shangri-La and several other casinos in Moscow.
Casinos in Russia are now to be confined to the Altai region of Siberia; the coastal area of the Far East, near the border with North Korea and China; Kaliningrad, a Russian enclave between Poland and Lithuania; and the Azov Sea region in the south. Until casinos open there, Russia will be one of the few countries in Europe without them, though underground ones are likely to be established.
After the law passed, federal officials and casino executives seemed certain that it would be watered down, which is apparently why neither the casinos nor the four regions did anything to prepare. “You know, in our country, the decisions are made by only one person,” said Samuil Binder, deputy executive director of the Russian Association for Gaming Business Development. He was referring to Mr. Putin.
After the Soviet Union’s fall in 1991, gambling sprang up everywhere in Russia, from first-class locations in Moscow to side-alley hangouts in the provinces. The crazy-quilt growth was something of a metaphor for capitalism here, full of possibilities and schemes and corruption.
The industry has been largely unregulated, and especially in recent years, almost anyone could get a license, for as little as $50. Russia is not a strait-laced place — rates of smoking and drinking are high — but an outcry about gambling ensued. “It is not only young people, but also retirees who lose their last kopecks and pensions through gambling,” Mr. Putin said in 2006.
His plan was announced during a spy scandal between Russia and its neighbor Georgia, and the timing suggested that Mr. Putin was in part seeking to wound the Georgian diaspora here, which is said to have an influential role in the industry.
As with the workers, it seems to have dawned on the gamblers themselves only recently that the casinos are closing.
“It is going to be strange, and even now, it’s hard to believe,” said Aleksei Ustinenko, 29, a construction executive who was playing at Shangri-La.
“Here we are, in one of the biggest, most beautiful, most expensive cities in the world,” he said. “And yet other people can decide that I cannot gamble if I want to.”
Some casinos said they might try to devote some space to private poker clubs, which they believe will be allowed under the law. But executives say such clubs are far less lucrative, and will employ very few workers.
And so laborers have been pulling down gambling signs and carting slot machines from sites all over Moscow.
“There was a time when all these clubs and casinos grew like a cancer tumor,” said Moscow’s mayor, Yuri M. Luzhkov. “We will close them all. By July 1, Moscow will be clean.”
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The government is shutting down every last legal casino and slot-machine parlor across the land, under an antivice plan promoted by Vladimir V. Putin that as recently as a few months ago was widely perceived as far-fetched. But the result will be hundreds of thousands of people thrown out of work.
And in a move that at times seems to have taken on almost farcical overtones, the Kremlin has offered the gambling industry only one option for survival: relocate to four regions in remote areas of Russia, as many as 4,000 miles from the capital. The potential marketing slogans — Come to the Las Vegas of Siberia! Have a Ball near the North Korean Border! — may not sound inviting, but that is in part what the government envisions.
All the same, none of the four regions are prepared for the transfer, and no casino is expected to reopen for several years. As of July 1, not even two decades after casinos began proliferating here in the free-for-all post-Soviet era, the industry’s workers will be out on the street.
“This is shaking my life to the core — such a blow for me and my family,” said Irina Mysachka, 32, a single mother who is a supervisor at the Shangri-La Casino in Moscow, which appears as orderly and preened (if your tastes run to fire-breathing neon dragons and other Oriental kitsch) as any similar luxury attraction in the United States.
“The authorities are taking this step without thinking at all,” she said. “They have not considered what this decision means for the workers. With the crisis, it is going to be very difficult for us.”
Unable to find a job in Moscow, she said she was going to leave her 5-year-old son, Yegor, with her mother and venture abroad.
Aleksandr Osin, 24, who has been at Shangri-La for five years, said he would try his luck in the insurance business, but was not hopeful. “We all thought that this was some kind of government thing that would not happen,” he said. “But now we know.”
The law that started the whole process was introduced in 2006 by Mr. Putin, then the president and now the prime minister, who spoke of the perils of the blackjack tables and the one-armed bandits, of shady characters having a grip on the industry.
The casinos have repeatedly asked for a reprieve, proposing a regulatory body to cut down on abuses, and lately pointing out that the ban would create hardships for workers during the crisis. The industry has also said it pays more than $1 billion a year in taxes. But Mr. Putin and his protégé, President Dmitri A. Medvedev, have not yielded. “The rules will not be revised in any way,” Mr. Medvedev said last month, “and there will be no backsliding, although various business organizations have been lobbying for precisely this.”
The gambling industry here does not have the loftiest of reputations, and many Russians will not grieve for it. Still, many of the 40 or so casinos in Moscow sought in recent years to behave more respectably, even as hundreds of slot-machine parlors retained a seedy, enter-at-your-own-risk feel.
The gambling industry says the ban will leave more than 400,000 people without work in Russia, at a time when it has been hard hit by the economic downturn: the World Bank predicts the economy will contract by 7.9 percent this year. The government has put the figure at 60,000 people, though industry analysts say that is absurdly low.
Storm International, a gambling conglomerate controlled by a British expatriate, Michael Boettcher, said that until recently, it alone employed 6,000 people at Shangri-La and several other casinos in Moscow.
Casinos in Russia are now to be confined to the Altai region of Siberia; the coastal area of the Far East, near the border with North Korea and China; Kaliningrad, a Russian enclave between Poland and Lithuania; and the Azov Sea region in the south. Until casinos open there, Russia will be one of the few countries in Europe without them, though underground ones are likely to be established.
After the law passed, federal officials and casino executives seemed certain that it would be watered down, which is apparently why neither the casinos nor the four regions did anything to prepare. “You know, in our country, the decisions are made by only one person,” said Samuil Binder, deputy executive director of the Russian Association for Gaming Business Development. He was referring to Mr. Putin.
After the Soviet Union’s fall in 1991, gambling sprang up everywhere in Russia, from first-class locations in Moscow to side-alley hangouts in the provinces. The crazy-quilt growth was something of a metaphor for capitalism here, full of possibilities and schemes and corruption.
The industry has been largely unregulated, and especially in recent years, almost anyone could get a license, for as little as $50. Russia is not a strait-laced place — rates of smoking and drinking are high — but an outcry about gambling ensued. “It is not only young people, but also retirees who lose their last kopecks and pensions through gambling,” Mr. Putin said in 2006.
His plan was announced during a spy scandal between Russia and its neighbor Georgia, and the timing suggested that Mr. Putin was in part seeking to wound the Georgian diaspora here, which is said to have an influential role in the industry.
As with the workers, it seems to have dawned on the gamblers themselves only recently that the casinos are closing.
“It is going to be strange, and even now, it’s hard to believe,” said Aleksei Ustinenko, 29, a construction executive who was playing at Shangri-La.
“Here we are, in one of the biggest, most beautiful, most expensive cities in the world,” he said. “And yet other people can decide that I cannot gamble if I want to.”
Some casinos said they might try to devote some space to private poker clubs, which they believe will be allowed under the law. But executives say such clubs are far less lucrative, and will employ very few workers.
And so laborers have been pulling down gambling signs and carting slot machines from sites all over Moscow.
“There was a time when all these clubs and casinos grew like a cancer tumor,” said Moscow’s mayor, Yuri M. Luzhkov. “We will close them all. By July 1, Moscow will be clean.”
CAPITALISM: God's way of determining who is smart and who is poor. - Ron Swanson ---> Video:Ron's Pyramid of Greatness Picture: Poster Size
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Posted 28 June 2009 - 08:21 PM
This has nothing to do with socialism. It's totalitarianism.
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Posted 28 June 2009 - 08:27 PM
QUOTE (LongLiveYorke @ Sunday, June 28th, 2009, 11:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
This has nothing to do with socialism. It's totalitarianism.
touche.
But this behavior isn't spawned in a non-socialist republic....
CAPITALISM: God's way of determining who is smart and who is poor. - Ron Swanson ---> Video:Ron's Pyramid of Greatness Picture: Poster Size
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Posted 28 June 2009 - 09:02 PM
Has obama shut down your Dairy Queen yet, brv?
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Posted 28 June 2009 - 09:29 PM
QUOTE (LongLiveYorke @ Sunday, June 28th, 2009, 11:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
This has nothing to do with socialism. It's totalitarianism.
you apparently haven't yet figured out that socialism is the buzzword for anything bad. ever.
QUOTE (ShakeZuma @ Wednesday, November 2nd, 2011, 4:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
seriously though, with that grammar it's really like, I mean it doesn't bother me as much that she gets beat, you know?
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Posted 29 June 2009 - 02:24 AM
QUOTE (BigDMcGee @ Monday, June 29th, 2009, 1:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Has obama shut down your Dairy Queen yet, brv?
Think of all the 550 lbs 14 year olds who would be saved if they did.
Bob
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Posted 29 June 2009 - 04:30 AM
QUOTE (brvheart @ Sunday, June 28th, 2009, 9:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
touche.
But this behavior isn't spawned in a non-socialist republic....
But this behavior isn't spawned in a non-socialist republic....
Judging by the demographics of the people in Florida who keep trying to shut down Indian Casinos and put caps on poker buy-ins.....I would say Russia's problem is some republican conservatives snuck into their country and convinced Putin that Jesus hates gambling.
"Give a little bit.....give a little bit of your chips to me...."
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Posted 29 June 2009 - 05:42 AM
QUOTE (LongLiveYorke @ Sunday, June 28th, 2009, 10:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
This has nothing to do with socialism. It's totalitarianism.
That's why I prefer the term 'statism' -- the belief that the state should intervene in voluntary consensual behavior. Socialism and totalitarianism are basically just different words for the same belief.
On a scale of 1-10, it's like socialism is 10, and totalitarianism goes all the way to 11.
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Posted 29 June 2009 - 06:42 AM
QUOTE (hblask @ Monday, June 29th, 2009, 9:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
That's why I prefer the term 'statism' -- the belief that the state should intervene in voluntary consensual behavior. Socialism and totalitarianism are basically just different words for the same belief.
On a scale of 1-10, it's like socialism is 10, and totalitarianism goes all the way to 11.
On a scale of 1-10, it's like socialism is 10, and totalitarianism goes all the way to 11.
why didn't you just make socialism a 9 and totalitarianism a 10?
QUOTE (Tactical Bear @ Monday, June 15th, 2009, 9:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Anybody who dies of Swine Flu is just a faggot.
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Posted 29 June 2009 - 06:54 AM
QUOTE (Sal Paradise @ Monday, June 29th, 2009, 7:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
why didn't you just make socialism a 9 and totalitarianism a 10?
Sometimes when you need that little bit extra..push it over the cliff...it's like you're at 10..and you need that little extra, so you go to eleven.
I use my cigar smoke as idiot repellent
"The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected." G.K. Chesterson 1900
"The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected." G.K. Chesterson 1900
timwakefield, on 18 April 2012 - 10:38 AM, said:
Things are only rights because the government decides they should be rights.
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Posted 29 June 2009 - 06:55 AM
QUOTE (CaneBrain @ Monday, June 29th, 2009, 5:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Judging by the demographics of the people in Florida who keep trying to shut down Indian Casinos and put caps on poker buy-ins.....I would say Russia's problem is some republican conservatives snuck into their country and convinced Putin that Jesus hates gambling.
Or it could be that Russian casinos are not like an American casino, only in Russia.
They might be a little...different.
I use my cigar smoke as idiot repellent
"The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected." G.K. Chesterson 1900
"The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected." G.K. Chesterson 1900
timwakefield, on 18 April 2012 - 10:38 AM, said:
Things are only rights because the government decides they should be rights.
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Posted 29 June 2009 - 07:08 AM
QUOTE (Balloon guy @ Monday, June 29th, 2009, 6:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Or it could be that Russian casinos are not like an American casino, only in Russia.
They might be a little...different.
They might be a little...different.
There is no way to know. Unless Sarah Palin has an insight into Russian casinos from her front porch view of the area.
"Give a little bit.....give a little bit of your chips to me...."
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Posted 29 June 2009 - 07:23 AM
QUOTE (CaneBrain @ Monday, June 29th, 2009, 8:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
There is no way to know. Unless Sarah Palin has an insight into Russian casinos from her front porch view of the area.
Ohh...hahahahaha..Sarah Palin....oh, good one.
I had forgot about her, but you brought her back...
Cause she said she could see Russia from her house...
Except she didn't say that,
Tina Fey did.
She said: "They're our next door neighbors and you can actually see Russia from land here in Alaska."
Which is in fact not only true, but something most people do not know. Russia and America are as close as 3 miles apart when you look at the islands we each own, 50 miles if you go for more continental land masses.
So your favorite reason to hate Palin is in fact a media distortion that you willingly bought; hook, line and sinker.
Liberals..they never get accused of wasting effort on truth when it comes to destroying the character of a political foe.
Which is why this lie about Palin has had the legs it has had.
I use my cigar smoke as idiot repellent
"The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected." G.K. Chesterson 1900
"The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected." G.K. Chesterson 1900
timwakefield, on 18 April 2012 - 10:38 AM, said:
Things are only rights because the government decides they should be rights.
#16
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Posted 29 June 2009 - 07:28 AM
QUOTE (CaneBrain @ Monday, June 29th, 2009, 8:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
There is no way to know.
I would be willing to bet 50 rubles that there are ways for us to know...
I use my cigar smoke as idiot repellent
"The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected." G.K. Chesterson 1900
"The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected." G.K. Chesterson 1900
timwakefield, on 18 April 2012 - 10:38 AM, said:
Things are only rights because the government decides they should be rights.
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Posted 29 June 2009 - 07:53 AM
QUOTE (Balloon guy @ Monday, June 29th, 2009, 8:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I would be willing to bet 50 rubles that there are ways for us to know...
But there is nowhere to bet rubles anymore. See?
And I can think of 50 better reasons to dislike Palin. You can keep blaming Tina Fey though. It sounds like Putin wants all Russian casinos moved to the part of Russia you can see from Alaska. We might have something there.
"Give a little bit.....give a little bit of your chips to me...."
#18
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Posted 29 June 2009 - 08:22 AM
QUOTE (Balloon guy @ Monday, June 29th, 2009, 8:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Which is in fact not only true, but something most people do not know. Russia and America are as close as 3 miles apart when you look at the islands we each own, 50 miles if you go for more continental land masses.
So your favorite reason to hate Palin is in fact a media distortion that you willingly bought; hook, line and sinker.
Liberals..they never get accused of wasting effort on truth when it comes to destroying the character of a political foe.
Which is why this lie about Palin has had the legs it has had.
So your favorite reason to hate Palin is in fact a media distortion that you willingly bought; hook, line and sinker.
Liberals..they never get accused of wasting effort on truth when it comes to destroying the character of a political foe.
Which is why this lie about Palin has had the legs it has had.
I concede, this new reading does show that she was a worldly diplomat with a deep insight into foreign cultures. We have made a big mistake. Although all is not lost, I am sure I can still vote for her next time.
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Posted 29 June 2009 - 08:57 AM
QUOTE (Sal Paradise @ Monday, June 29th, 2009, 7:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
why didn't you just make socialism a 9 and totalitarianism a 10?
[insert picture from "This is Spinal Tap"]
but this one goes to 11
There was madness in any direction, at any hour…You could strike sparks anywhere. There was a fantastic universal sense that whatever we were doing was right, that we were winning…. And that, I think, was the handle-that sense of inevitable victory over the forces of Old and Evil. Not in any mean or military sense; we didn’t need that. Our energy would simply prevail. There was no point in fighting-on our side or theirs. We had all the momentum; we were riding the crest of a high and beautiful wave….So now, less than five years later, you can go up on a steep hill in Las Vegas and look West, and with the right kind of eyes you can almost see the high-water mark-that place where the wave finally broke and rolled back.
#20
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Posted 29 June 2009 - 09:03 AM
QUOTE (BigDMcGee @ Monday, June 29th, 2009, 12:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Has obama shut down your Dairy Queen yet, brv?
I don't make enough.
Also, this thread has nothing to do with Obama
CAPITALISM: God's way of determining who is smart and who is poor. - Ron Swanson ---> Video:Ron's Pyramid of Greatness Picture: Poster Size
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