Socialism Is Wonderful

[brvheart 1,768]

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/29/world/eu...ml?_r=1&hpw

[hblask 1]

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/29/world/eu...ml?_r=1&hpw

The NYT apparently doesn't let us read anymore without registering, and I'm too lazy to do that right now.

[brvheart 1,768]

MOSCOW — One of the largest mass layoffs in recent Russian history is to occur on Wednesday, and the Kremlin itself is decreeing it, economic crisis or not.Skip to next paragraphMultimediaMapRelatedTimes Topics: RussiaThe government is shutting down every last legal casino and slot-machine parlor across the land, under an antivice plan promoted by Vladimir V. Putin that as recently as a few months ago was widely perceived as far-fetched. But the result will be hundreds of thousands of people thrown out of work.And in a move that at times seems to have taken on almost farcical overtones, the Kremlin has offered the gambling industry only one option for survival: relocate to four regions in remote areas of Russia, as many as 4,000 miles from the capital. The potential marketing slogans — Come to the Las Vegas of Siberia! Have a Ball near the North Korean Border! — may not sound inviting, but that is in part what the government envisions.All the same, none of the four regions are prepared for the transfer, and no casino is expected to reopen for several years. As of July 1, not even two decades after casinos began proliferating here in the free-for-all post-Soviet era, the industry’s workers will be out on the street.“This is shaking my life to the core — such a blow for me and my family,” said Irina Mysachka, 32, a single mother who is a supervisor at the Shangri-La Casino in Moscow, which appears as orderly and preened (if your tastes run to fire-breathing neon dragons and other Oriental kitsch) as any similar luxury attraction in the United States.“The authorities are taking this step without thinking at all,” she said. “They have not considered what this decision means for the workers. With the crisis, it is going to be very difficult for us.”Unable to find a job in Moscow, she said she was going to leave her 5-year-old son, Yegor, with her mother and venture abroad.Aleksandr Osin, 24, who has been at Shangri-La for five years, said he would try his luck in the insurance business, but was not hopeful. “We all thought that this was some kind of government thing that would not happen,” he said. “But now we know.”The law that started the whole process was introduced in 2006 by Mr. Putin, then the president and now the prime minister, who spoke of the perils of the blackjack tables and the one-armed bandits, of shady characters having a grip on the industry.The casinos have repeatedly asked for a reprieve, proposing a regulatory body to cut down on abuses, and lately pointing out that the ban would create hardships for workers during the crisis. The industry has also said it pays more than $1 billion a year in taxes. But Mr. Putin and his protégé, President Dmitri A. Medvedev, have not yielded. “The rules will not be revised in any way,” Mr. Medvedev said last month, “and there will be no backsliding, although various business organizations have been lobbying for precisely this.”The gambling industry here does not have the loftiest of reputations, and many Russians will not grieve for it. Still, many of the 40 or so casinos in Moscow sought in recent years to behave more respectably, even as hundreds of slot-machine parlors retained a seedy, enter-at-your-own-risk feel.The gambling industry says the ban will leave more than 400,000 people without work in Russia, at a time when it has been hard hit by the economic downturn: the World Bank predicts the economy will contract by 7.9 percent this year. The government has put the figure at 60,000 people, though industry analysts say that is absurdly low.Storm International, a gambling conglomerate controlled by a British expatriate, Michael Boettcher, said that until recently, it alone employed 6,000 people at Shangri-La and several other casinos in Moscow.Casinos in Russia are now to be confined to the Altai region of Siberia; the coastal area of the Far East, near the border with North Korea and China; Kaliningrad, a Russian enclave between Poland and Lithuania; and the Azov Sea region in the south. Until casinos open there, Russia will be one of the few countries in Europe without them, though underground ones are likely to be established.After the law passed, federal officials and casino executives seemed certain that it would be watered down, which is apparently why neither the casinos nor the four regions did anything to prepare. “You know, in our country, the decisions are made by only one person,” said Samuil Binder, deputy executive director of the Russian Association for Gaming Business Development. He was referring to Mr. Putin.After the Soviet Union’s fall in 1991, gambling sprang up everywhere in Russia, from first-class locations in Moscow to side-alley hangouts in the provinces. The crazy-quilt growth was something of a metaphor for capitalism here, full of possibilities and schemes and corruption.The industry has been largely unregulated, and especially in recent years, almost anyone could get a license, for as little as $50. Russia is not a strait-laced place — rates of smoking and drinking are high — but an outcry about gambling ensued. “It is not only young people, but also retirees who lose their last kopecks and pensions through gambling,” Mr. Putin said in 2006.His plan was announced during a spy scandal between Russia and its neighbor Georgia, and the timing suggested that Mr. Putin was in part seeking to wound the Georgian diaspora here, which is said to have an influential role in the industry.As with the workers, it seems to have dawned on the gamblers themselves only recently that the casinos are closing.“It is going to be strange, and even now, it’s hard to believe,” said Aleksei Ustinenko, 29, a construction executive who was playing at Shangri-La.“Here we are, in one of the biggest, most beautiful, most expensive cities in the world,” he said. “And yet other people can decide that I cannot gamble if I want to.”Some casinos said they might try to devote some space to private poker clubs, which they believe will be allowed under the law. But executives say such clubs are far less lucrative, and will employ very few workers.And so laborers have been pulling down gambling signs and carting slot machines from sites all over Moscow.“There was a time when all these clubs and casinos grew like a cancer tumor,” said Moscow’s mayor, Yuri M. Luzhkov. “We will close them all. By July 1, Moscow will be clean.”

[LongLiveYorke 38]

This has nothing to do with socialism. It's totalitarianism.

[brvheart 1,768]

This has nothing to do with socialism. It's totalitarianism.

touche.But this behavior isn't spawned in a non-socialist republic....

[BigDMcGee 3,367]

Has obama shut down your Dairy Queen yet, brv?

[strategy 4]

This has nothing to do with socialism. It's totalitarianism.

you apparently haven't yet figured out that socialism is the buzzword for anything bad. ever.

[FCP Bob 1,323]

Has obama shut down your Dairy Queen yet, brv?

Think of all the 550 lbs 14 year olds who would be saved if they did.

[CaneBrain 97]

touche.But this behavior isn't spawned in a non-socialist republic....

Judging by the demographics of the people in Florida who keep trying to shut down Indian Casinos and put caps on poker buy-ins.....I would say Russia's problem is some republican conservatives snuck into their country and convinced Putin that Jesus hates gambling.

[hblask 1]

This has nothing to do with socialism. It's totalitarianism.

That's why I prefer the term 'statism' -- the belief that the state should intervene in voluntary consensual behavior. Socialism and totalitarianism are basically just different words for the same belief.On a scale of 1-10, it's like socialism is 10, and totalitarianism goes all the way to 11.

[Sal Paradise 57]

That's why I prefer the term 'statism' -- the belief that the state should intervene in voluntary consensual behavior. Socialism and totalitarianism are basically just different words for the same belief.On a scale of 1-10, it's like socialism is 10, and totalitarianism goes all the way to 11.

why didn't you just make socialism a 9 and totalitarianism a 10?

[Balloon guy 158]

why didn't you just make socialism a 9 and totalitarianism a 10?

Sometimes when you need that little bit extra..push it over the cliff...it's like you're at 10..and you need that little extra, so you go to eleven.

[Balloon guy 158]

Judging by the demographics of the people in Florida who keep trying to shut down Indian Casinos and put caps on poker buy-ins.....I would say Russia's problem is some republican conservatives snuck into their country and convinced Putin that Jesus hates gambling.

Or it could be that Russian casinos are not like an American casino, only in Russia.They might be a little...different.

[CaneBrain 97]

Or it could be that Russian casinos are not like an American casino, only in Russia.They might be a little...different.

There is no way to know. Unless Sarah Palin has an insight into Russian casinos from her front porch view of the area.

[Balloon guy 158]

There is no way to know. Unless Sarah Palin has an insight into Russian casinos from her front porch view of the area.

Ohh...hahahahaha..Sarah Palin....oh, good one.I had forgot about her, but you brought her back...Cause she said she could see Russia from her house...Except she didn't say that, Tina Fey did.She said: "They're our next door neighbors and you can actually see Russia from land here in Alaska."Which is in fact not only true, but something most people do not know. Russia and America are as close as 3 miles apart when you look at the islands we each own, 50 miles if you go for more continental land masses.So your favorite reason to hate Palin is in fact a media distortion that you willingly bought; hook, line and sinker.Liberals..they never get accused of wasting effort on truth when it comes to destroying the character of a political foe.Which is why this lie about Palin has had the legs it has had.

[Balloon guy 158]

There is no way to know.

I would be willing to bet 50 rubles that there are ways for us to know...

[CaneBrain 97]

I would be willing to bet 50 rubles that there are ways for us to know...

But there is nowhere to bet rubles anymore. See?And I can think of 50 better reasons to dislike Palin. You can keep blaming Tina Fey though. It sounds like Putin wants all Russian casinos moved to the part of Russia you can see from Alaska. We might have something there.

[vbnautilus 49]

Which is in fact not only true, but something most people do not know. Russia and America are as close as 3 miles apart when you look at the islands we each own, 50 miles if you go for more continental land masses.So your favorite reason to hate Palin is in fact a media distortion that you willingly bought; hook, line and sinker.Liberals..they never get accused of wasting effort on truth when it comes to destroying the character of a political foe.Which is why this lie about Palin has had the legs it has had.

I concede, this new reading does show that she was a worldly diplomat with a deep insight into foreign cultures. We have made a big mistake. Although all is not lost, I am sure I can still vote for her next time.

[dapokerbum 0]

why didn't you just make socialism a 9 and totalitarianism a 10?

[insert picture from "This is Spinal Tap"]but this one goes to 11

[brvheart 1,768]

Has obama shut down your Dairy Queen yet, brv?

I don't make enough.Also, this thread has nothing to do with Obama

[brvheart 1,768]

Judging by the demographics of the people in Florida who keep trying to shut down Indian Casinos and put caps on poker buy-ins.....I would say Russia's problem is some republican conservatives snuck into their country and convinced Putin that Jesus hates gambling.

Wouldn't that be Jews?

[Balloon guy 158]

But there is nowhere to bet rubles anymore. See?

nh

And I can think of 50 better reasons to dislike Palin. You can keep blaming Tina Fey though. It sounds like Putin wants all Russian casinos moved to the part of Russia you can see from Alaska. We might have something there.

I concede, this new reading does show that she was a worldly diplomat with a deep insight into foreign cultures. We have made a big mistake. Although all is not lost, I am sure I can still vote for her next time.

Keep snapping your fingers and pretend your distraction methods are working. Palin was the number 2 on the ticket, she should be compared to Biden, who she easily trumps in all comparisons of intellect.But if you keep pretending that marginalizing Palin somehow lends gravitas to your side of the issues, then I guess you can enjoy your world that only exists in a world that lets you pretend that you can marginalize a person to lend strength to your side of an issue.And dapokerbum...I did the Spinal Tap joke....pay attention!Although I remember hearing that Spinal Tap might be making a sequal...

[BigDMcGee 3,367]

I don't make enough.Also, this thread has nothing to do with Obama

so that's a no, then?

[CaneBrain 97]

Wouldn't that be Jews?

Jews love gambling. Even though there are lots of Jewish people in South Florida, they dont occupy a lot of space in the state legislature. Most of the anti-gambling thrust comes from the central and northern parts of Florida which are much more like South Georgia than South Florida. And much of it comes from the right/religious representatives as I implied.Our (Republican moderate) governor signed an agreement last year allowing Indian casinos to have blackjack, pai gow poker, three card poker, and vegas style slots. The FL legislature has been trying to tear down that agreement (through the legislative and judicial branches of Florida) ever since. You would think in a state ranked dead last in education that the legislature would have more pressing matters.....

[brvheart 1,768]

so that's a no, then?

I would prefer to lean toward "not yet".