8 replies to this topic

[qnshustler]

This hand stuck out to me tonight because it was kind of a tough spot. I'm pretty sure I know what should be done but I'd like hear critiques. Table was pretty loose, around 5-7 players seeing the flop, preflop raise or no. I had been there a couple hours playing mostly tight. Villain is UTG+1, had been there maybe 3 orbits most, no good read on him, he had taken down a few pots uncontested but didn't seem to get out of line in any. UTG player was new to table, didn't know anything about him. My stack was around $270 to start the hand.
UTG and UTG+1 limp for $2, I am next and raise to $11 with AcJc, 3 later players called as well as the 2 limpers.
Flop Jd4d4h
UTG bets $35, UTG+1 calls, I call after about 15-20 seconds, 3 fold.
Turn 6c. UTG checks, UTG+1 takes about 20-30 seconds thinking and counting chips before betting $125. He has about $150 behind it and UTG has around $200. Hero's move?

I probably should raised the flop but I was wary of the 3 guys behind me, really wish I had just raised there though at least for info. As played though, whats your move on turn? Oh and if you raise flop, how much?

[trystero]

I probably fold

I don't raise flop w/5 other players...it's not hard for one of them to show up with a 4 or even QQ+. IN my experience at live 1/2, and admittedly it's not much and of course depends upon your opponents like always, the players tend to be more passive. I really don't see this guy betting $125 into 3 players with KJ or QJ. But lol if you fold and the other two turn over 88 and QJ. Of course it could be QJ vs. AdXd, too, battle of the titans.

[qnshustler]

I probably fold

I don't raise flop w/5 other players...it's not hard for one of them to show up with a 4 or even QQ+. IN my experience at live 1/2, and admittedly it's not much and of course depends upon your opponents like always, the players tend to be more passive. I really don't see this guy betting $125 into 3 players with KJ or QJ. But lol if you fold and the other two turn over 88 and QJ. Of course it could be QJ vs. AdXd, too, battle of the titans.

lol very true, see it way too often in a 1/2 game. I do feel better that you would also flat the flop on that reasoning. I do feel like maybe even a min raise on flop MAY have been a good idea, with the intention of shutting down if anyone played back at me. Turn was a tough decision tho, I think more so because flatting the flop just didn't tell me anything about villains' hands.

[SwolyswoND]

You can't raise this flop - all worse hands fold and only better hands call.

Turn is a gross spot, but you gotta dump it. You're not closing the action, and people are less likely to bluff against 2 opponents rather than heads up. You very well might have the best hand here (lol live players) but it's going to cost you way too much to find out, and your hand is crushed by a villain's turn range here.

[qnshustler]

You can't raise this flop - all worse hands fold and only better hands call.

Turn is a gross spot, but you gotta dump it. You're not closing the action, and people are less likely to bluff against 2 opponents rather than heads up. You very well might have the best hand here (lol live players) but it's going to cost you way too much to find out, and your hand is crushed by a villain's turn range here.

So you also think flatting the flop was the only move? I really felt like I should have min raised, if for that exact reason that worse hands will fold, better will call or re-pop, and if they do I will know where I am at and that turn decision would have been easier. Is that a terrible way to think about it or is there any merit to that thought?

Those reasons you gave for folding the turn match exactly what was going through my head at the moment. The UTG player wouldn't give the slightest tell whether he was continuing or not, so not knowing his intentions and not being able to close the action made it a very gross spot.

[NoBBiR]

So you also think flatting the flop was the only move? I really felt like I should have min raised, if for that exact reason that worse hands will fold, better will call or re-pop, and if they do I will know where I am at and that turn decision would have been easier. Is that a terrible way to think about it or is there any merit to that thought?

Those reasons you gave for folding the turn match exactly what was going through my head at the moment. The UTG player wouldn't give the slightest tell whether he was continuing or not, so not knowing his intentions and not being able to close the action made it a very gross spot.

Yes. Because if worse hands don't call, then you're just raising for information, which is terrible.

[qnshustler]

Yes. Because if worse hands don't call, then you're just raising for information, which is terrible.

Ok I get it, didn't realize how bad that would have been. Glad I made the right call then, thanks for the help.

[FARGOpokerND]

Essentially what others said is right. The thought process of "raising for info" is one of the WORST processes to have. Program that out of your system forever please.

[qnshustler]

Essentially what others said is right. The thought process of "raising for info" is one of the WORST processes to have. Program that out of your system forever please.

Ok, never realized how horrible an idea that could be but I'm glad to have been called out on it sooner rather than later.