Jump to content


Is Folding A Good Option


  • Please log in to reply
39 replies to this topic

#1 thavinny9

thavinny9

    Poker Forum Newbie

  • Members
  • 57 posts
  • Favorite Poker Game:NLHE full

Posted 13 June 2009 - 01:09 PM

Absolute/UB Cereus No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (8 handed) - Absolute/UB Cereus Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comButton ($2.42)SB ($3.98)Hero (BB) ($2.06)UTG ($1.57)UTG+1 ($9.51)MP1 ($0.80)MP2 ($4.53)CO ($4.93)Preflop: Hero is BB with A :4h, Q :5c4 folds, CO bets $0.07, 1 fold, SB calls $0.06, Hero calls $0.05Flop: ($0.21) Q :club:, 6 :qh, 6 :3h (3 players)SB checks, Hero bets $0.12, CO calls $0.12, 1 foldTurn: ($0.45) 3 :ts (2 players)Hero bets $0.22, CO raises to $4.74 (All-In) Hero???I immediately think about about pocket 3's, x-6, or some kind of weird queen, anywhere form K-Q to Q-8.Wich play is +EV, fold or call?and I Know i should be careful with only one pair when facing an all-in on the turn...i hate these spots

#2 Temporary Nuts

Temporary Nuts

    Glub Glub

  • Members
  • 2,423 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:La La Land
  • Interests:Beer
  • Favorite Poker Game:Go Fish

Posted 13 June 2009 - 02:12 PM

3-bet preflop. Your AK/AQ hands rely too much on folding equity to overcall like this.I'm not exactly sure how you also rule out A's and K's or A-6s... or even add in something silly like Q-8 through Q-T... but I"m fairly certain folding is you *only* option here unless there is the rare exception that he continuously makes monster overbet bluffs which is superrare to find.Think about what you're ahead of... maybe a crappily played KQ or total air... that's it
QUOTE (NoBBiR @ Monday, August 11th, 2008, 7:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If god didn't want that particular law broken, he had no business making those that big.

Climb
Support your underground artists damnit

#3 trystero

trystero

    Poker Forum Veteran

  • Members
  • 3,780 posts

Posted 13 June 2009 - 05:01 PM

you've supplied no reads so the standard line is to fold. I'd expect him to have KK+/qq/66/betterhandpf is a good spot to 3-bet but, again, can't know for sure if we don't know the players involved

#4 Solar

Solar

    Poker Forum Groupie

  • Members
  • 590 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Christchurch, New Zealand
  • Favorite Poker Game:NLHE

Posted 13 June 2009 - 08:53 PM

I re pop this pre flop. You're miles ahead of the CO's range and the sb never has a better hand.I don't like donking this flop at all. Not that there is a really good way to play this oop which is why 3-betting pre is so good.
Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm.
Winston Churchill

El Skipper

#5 NoBBiR

NoBBiR

    F34l2 Durrrr

  • Members
  • 3,522 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Binghamton NY
  • Interests:Poker.
  • Favorite Poker Game:No Lemon Tennis Hold Me Tightly.

Posted 13 June 2009 - 09:04 PM

Def. threebet pre. AQs at 2nl is like the nuts.
"How do they put the ****ing queen in the window?"

Darvin Moon, I hope you die in a grease fire.

#6 whatgreatis

whatgreatis

    Entropaneur

  • Members
  • 3,065 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Moneyapolis, Murdasota
  • Interests:strategy games
  • Favorite Poker Game:Not just another arrogent asshole pothead.

Posted 21 June 2009 - 12:47 AM

How can you guys say 3bet without knowing how tight the opener is?The flat call preflop is completely fine unless the opener is a nut job, at that point it becomes a large mistake to not squeeze.Having reads on villain would make this spot infinitely easier. I would bet/call the turn but sometimes you'll see KK/AA played like this.
degenerate strategist





QUOTE (tskillz187 @ Sunday, June 21st, 2009, 7:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Whatgreatis is the lone reason I became a small winner at small stakes to a bigger winner at mid stakes.

#7 SCS

SCS

    Poker Forum Veteran

  • Members
  • 1,771 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Folsom, CA

Posted 21 June 2009 - 06:18 AM

View Postwhatgreatis, on Sunday, June 21st, 2009, 4:47 AM, said:

How can you guys say 3bet without knowing how tight the opener is?The flat call preflop is completely fine unless the opener is a nut job, at that point it becomes a large mistake to not squeeze.Having reads on villain would make this spot infinitely easier. I would bet/call the turn but sometimes you'll see KK/AA played like this.
This is a 3 bet preflop, and it's not even close. You are missing an insane amount of value by flatting here.I don't understand the reasoning behind the flop donk bet. This is a board where we should expect villain to cb his entire range, and we aren't to worried about it getting checked through.

#8 mtdesmoines

mtdesmoines

    Poker Forum Veteran

  • Members
  • 9,980 posts

Posted 21 June 2009 - 11:16 AM

View PostSCS, on Sunday, June 21st, 2009, 9:18 AM, said:

This is a 3 bet preflop, and it's not even close. You are missing an insane amount of value by flatting here.

Somewhere Jimmy Carter is smiling because he knows that he is no longer the worst President of the modern era

#9 whatgreatis

whatgreatis

    Entropaneur

  • Members
  • 3,065 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Moneyapolis, Murdasota
  • Interests:strategy games
  • Favorite Poker Game:Not just another arrogent asshole pothead.

Posted 21 June 2009 - 12:27 PM

I don't even know why I wasted my time responding to these hands. I should just keep letting breakeven 10nl players give advice to other breakeven 5nl players.
degenerate strategist





QUOTE (tskillz187 @ Sunday, June 21st, 2009, 7:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Whatgreatis is the lone reason I became a small winner at small stakes to a bigger winner at mid stakes.

#10 tskillz187

tskillz187

    Great Tiger, you're next!

  • Members
  • 6,131 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Brockport/Buffalo, NY

Posted 21 June 2009 - 12:50 PM

LOL Ryan strat tilt!
Naismith (2:56:11 PM): fuckerflakeoutonmystakingnowmakingmillions

#11 whatgreatis

whatgreatis

    Entropaneur

  • Members
  • 3,065 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Moneyapolis, Murdasota
  • Interests:strategy games
  • Favorite Poker Game:Not just another arrogent asshole pothead.

Posted 21 June 2009 - 12:55 PM

View Posttskillz187, on Sunday, June 21st, 2009, 1:50 PM, said:

LOL Ryan strat tilt!
lol! Yeah, I am.These fuckers are saying that not 3betting AQss is a huge mistake when we know NOTHING about the opener.I'm saying 3betting it is okay but flatting isn't a mistake either. It only becomes a large mistake if villain has a high steal percentage, which none of us know if he does.It's like these fuckers don't want to take advice from people who have worked on their game and have come up through the limits. They don't take advice from people who are better than them and play much higher than them. I hope they are content at grinding out 10nl. When I posted here more regularly around a year ago, a lot of these same guys are playing the same limits then as they are now. You know what that says? They are pretty poor players.
degenerate strategist





QUOTE (tskillz187 @ Sunday, June 21st, 2009, 7:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Whatgreatis is the lone reason I became a small winner at small stakes to a bigger winner at mid stakes.

#12 tskillz187

tskillz187

    Great Tiger, you're next!

  • Members
  • 6,131 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Brockport/Buffalo, NY

Posted 21 June 2009 - 01:06 PM

Responding to Ryan tilt puts me in such an odd spot. I think there are a few things here:1. They don't know you and don't know if you suck or not. Not that it should matter, because they should think about your advice and counter it with sound reasoning, but w/e.2. It shouldn't tilt you unless you want to actually make people better on these forums, you don't need their recognition that you're a very good NL player, many people know it and w/e you make all the mobnies.3. This is kinda dangerous to post, but... just because people post in NL strat doesn't mean they want to get better at poker. A lot of time they just want to prove/verify that their thought process was correct, and instead of looking outside that box onto other ways of playing it they are going to just defend what they believe was/is right.4. Because of #3 a lot of your last sentence is true.
Naismith (2:56:11 PM): fuckerflakeoutonmystakingnowmakingmillions

#13 whatgreatis

whatgreatis

    Entropaneur

  • Members
  • 3,065 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Moneyapolis, Murdasota
  • Interests:strategy games
  • Favorite Poker Game:Not just another arrogent asshole pothead.

Posted 21 June 2009 - 01:09 PM

June 1-20Posted Image
degenerate strategist





QUOTE (tskillz187 @ Sunday, June 21st, 2009, 7:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Whatgreatis is the lone reason I became a small winner at small stakes to a bigger winner at mid stakes.

#14 tskillz187

tskillz187

    Great Tiger, you're next!

  • Members
  • 6,131 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Brockport/Buffalo, NY

Posted 21 June 2009 - 01:11 PM

Guess we can cross off point 1 now, queer.
Naismith (2:56:11 PM): fuckerflakeoutonmystakingnowmakingmillions

#15 NoBBiR

NoBBiR

    F34l2 Durrrr

  • Members
  • 3,522 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Binghamton NY
  • Interests:Poker.
  • Favorite Poker Game:No Lemon Tennis Hold Me Tightly.

Posted 21 June 2009 - 01:21 PM

Lol this turned into a upside down brag post pretty quick.
"How do they put the ****ing queen in the window?"

Darvin Moon, I hope you die in a grease fire.

#16 SCS

SCS

    Poker Forum Veteran

  • Members
  • 1,771 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Folsom, CA

Posted 21 June 2009 - 01:33 PM

View Postwhatgreatis, on Sunday, June 21st, 2009, 4:27 PM, said:

I don't even know why I wasted my time responding to these hands. I should just keep letting breakeven 10nl players give advice to other breakeven 5nl players.
If you are not raising AQs in this spot against most players at microstakes, then you aren't value 3 betting enough. Villain will call with a lot of Ax, KQ, KJ, KT, QJ, QT, JT, low-middle pocket pairs, and sc hands.

#17 whatgreatis

whatgreatis

    Entropaneur

  • Members
  • 3,065 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Moneyapolis, Murdasota
  • Interests:strategy games
  • Favorite Poker Game:Not just another arrogent asshole pothead.

Posted 21 June 2009 - 01:34 PM

View PostSCS, on Sunday, June 21st, 2009, 2:33 PM, said:

If you are not raising AQs in this spot against most players at microstakes, then you aren't value 3 betting enough. Villain will call with a lot of Ax, KQ, KJ, KT, QJ, QT, JT, low-middle pocket pairs, and sc hands.

View Postwhatgreatis, on Sunday, June 21st, 2009, 1:55 PM, said:

These fuckers are saying that not 3betting AQss is a huge mistake when we know NOTHING about the opener.I'm saying 3betting it is okay but flatting isn't a mistake either. It only becomes a large mistake if villain has a high steal percentage, which none of us know if he does.

degenerate strategist





QUOTE (tskillz187 @ Sunday, June 21st, 2009, 7:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Whatgreatis is the lone reason I became a small winner at small stakes to a bigger winner at mid stakes.

#18 mtdesmoines

mtdesmoines

    Poker Forum Veteran

  • Members
  • 9,980 posts

Posted 21 June 2009 - 01:53 PM

View Postwhatgreatis, on Sunday, June 21st, 2009, 3:47 AM, said:

How can you guys say 3bet without knowing how tight the opener is?The flat call preflop is completely fine unless the opener is a nut job, at that point it becomes a large mistake to not squeeze.Having reads on villain would make this spot infinitely easier. I would bet/call the turn but sometimes you'll see KK/AA played like this.
So I'm reading this thread and what you go on to say from this point on makes a lot of sense. The problem is that we are given a very limited amount of information to deal with and it's $5 NL, so many, many people (prob correctly) make the assumption that it's OK to 3bet. And I'm guessing that the hero knows very little about the villain as well, prob isn't using PT, has no stats or reads.
Somewhere Jimmy Carter is smiling because he knows that he is no longer the worst President of the modern era

#19 whatgreatis

whatgreatis

    Entropaneur

  • Members
  • 3,065 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Moneyapolis, Murdasota
  • Interests:strategy games
  • Favorite Poker Game:Not just another arrogent asshole pothead.

Posted 21 June 2009 - 02:02 PM

View Posttskillz187, on Sunday, June 21st, 2009, 2:06 PM, said:

2. It shouldn't tilt you unless you want to actually make people better on these forums, you don't need their recognition that you're a very good NL player, many people know it and w/e you make all the mobnies.
Word.I shouldn't really care to be honest. I guess this is why everybody moved to the private forum. The microgrinders at 4bb seem so much more open to learning/improving/moving up than fcp strat.Good luck in turning this place around, Tim.
degenerate strategist





QUOTE (tskillz187 @ Sunday, June 21st, 2009, 7:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Whatgreatis is the lone reason I became a small winner at small stakes to a bigger winner at mid stakes.

#20 NoBBiR

NoBBiR

    F34l2 Durrrr

  • Members
  • 3,522 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Binghamton NY
  • Interests:Poker.
  • Favorite Poker Game:No Lemon Tennis Hold Me Tightly.

Posted 21 June 2009 - 02:31 PM

View Postwhatgreatis, on Sunday, June 21st, 2009, 3:02 PM, said:

Word.I shouldn't really care to be honest. I guess this is why everybody moved to the private forum. The microgrinders at 4bb seem so much more open to learning/improving/moving up than fcp strat.Good luck in turning this place around, Tim.
I don't understand why everyone takes everything so personal around here. Like... seriously? If the above is what sets you off then I dunno how you handle playing poker.
"How do they put the ****ing queen in the window?"

Darvin Moon, I hope you die in a grease fire.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users