25 replies to this topic

[J-Dub]

I was playing at Commerce Casino in LA yesterday in a $100 buy-in no limit game. I had been sitting for about five hours, built up a nice stack, about $375. At some point my KK got crakced by 45 when he turned a set, loosing half my stack. So I'm back down to about $190. This woman sits to my immediate left and after about 15 minutes I've seen her take down some unusual pots with hands like 10-7 ("they were suited"), and raising/reraising with similarly odd hands. Her excuse was she did it because of position.About 45 min after she sat down I got dealt QQ from MP and raise it up to my standard $13 ($2/3 blinds). She reraises me to $125 total. Of course everyone folds back to me and it's decision time. Do I simply call, reraise all-in, fold? It seems to me like a protection raise, simply get out and everything will be fine type of raise. But I'm baffled. Thoughts?Results to come.

[cdddc75]

Easy fold. The best case scenario is that you call and you're up against AK. You're probably crushed by AA or KK though.

[711Buddha]

$125 seems like a suspiciously large raise on your comparatively meager bet. Were her other All-In bets with junk pre-flop? Can you get any read on her at all? Full game?Folding QQ pre-flop is not a real option as you've mentioned her range of hands is considerably larger than AA or KK. You're ahead of anything else. (In a full game 1:11 hands someone will have AA or KK, but you gotta figure you'll be way ahead playing agressively the other 10 times, and even if you run into AA or KK you are only a 5:1 dog.) If you call, what's her move after the flop? Undoubtedly check or fire again, maybe check raise - the point is if she's got you beat, you are going to pay more than just the call. If a K or A comes can you lay this down? Tough questions. Would a raise win it right now? Is she capable of folding at all? I like coming back over the top here. Put it all in the middle. If you are best, she may just be your ATM all nite. Of course, that's easy to say with your money.

[J-Dub]

It was a full game and she hadn't pushed the 45 min she'd been there. I got the impression she didn't really understand betting strategy, she had a tendancy to over bet the pot. The raise to $125 was the biggest I'd seen, but still along the same lines.

[gobears]

I think that you have to fold here, unless you've seen her throw in all-in reraises with weak hands which would allow you to increase the range of hands that she could have.Sounds like she's played some strange hands but you didn't indicate that she was doing an all-in reraise with those odd hands.

[Whatever]

I would fold QQ for $13 but I guess you probably didn't.

[Devilkin]

Fold it up unless your past experience says she would all-in with marginal hands. If this is the first 'all in', give her credit for a monster hand.Dev

[krup24]

I would definitely push it. She probably has pocket 7s-Js. Even if ur against AK its a race I'd like to make. Heres hoping in advance that you didn't get bad beat when you pushed it.

[Whatever]

Quote

Even if ur against AK its a race I'd like to make.

Why do you want to race against her?

[krup24]

Whatever said:

Why do you want to race against her?

Cause have a two step lead

[NickTheKid]

Whatever said:

Quote

Even if ur against AK its a race I'd like to make.

Why do you want to race against her?

I'd take any pocket pair over AK, because it's still the better hand.

[Mr Monkey]

easy fold. dont see how its right to call or reraise. anyone who would want to to race with AK for that much money seems crazy and seems they are just an adreneline junkie gambler who most likely doesnt understand poker

[rawl316]

Mr Monkey said:

easy fold. dont see how its right to call or reraise. anyone who would want to to race with AK for that much money seems crazy and seems they are  just an adreneline  junkie gambler who most likely doesnt understand poker

I'm not trying to flame anyone, but you guys make it seem like it's really easy to fold QQ. what range of hands do you play then if someone reraises you big?

[Mr Monkey]

sometimes if i have AA and some puts out a standard bet i move all in cause people dont think anyone would do that with AA. when people raise or bet so much they usually either have a monster or they are bluffing. i dont like to risk that much on a guess. even if u guess right u are still very vulrable to a K or A. It just makes no sense to call when in most situations even when u do have the best hand your are only a small favorite. this person isnt doing this every hand so fold. even if she does play junk when she still will get AA KK or AK. her loose play might even help her get a call when she does something like this. if u are a better player why would u want to have so much money in preflop with QQ. Seems silly to me

[Mr Monkey]

rawl316 said:

Mr Monkey said:

easy fold. dont see how its right to call or reraise. anyone who would want to to race with AK for that much money seems crazy and seems they are  just an adreneline  junkie gambler who most likely doesnt understand poker

I'm not trying to flame anyone, but you guys make it seem like it's really easy to fold QQ. what range of hands do you play then if someone reraises you big?

when somone raises that big or more i want AA especially when im the better player at the table and the persom who raised hasnt been out of line at any point during the session. KK is also good but i will and have folded KK in situations like this.

[cdddc75]

rawl316 said:

Mr Monkey said:

easy fold. dont see how its right to call or reraise. anyone who would want to to race with AK for that much money seems crazy and seems they are  just an adreneline  junkie gambler who most likely doesnt understand poker

I'm not trying to flame anyone, but you guys make it seem like it's really easy to fold QQ. what range of hands do you play then if someone reraises you big?

In this scenario, I push AA and fold everything else. Why would I want to risk most of my stack preflop in a case where it obviously appears as though I'm utterly dominated. If I'm not, then the lady's wild aggression worked.Easy, easy, easy, easy fold with QQ in this spot. I have a premium hand, but not the best one.

[TJ_Eckleburg]

I can't believe everyone's saying fold.Now, I realize you're posting this because it's a hand that made you think about things, and that probably means you pushed and lost.However, if you run QQ into better hands (and by better I mean only KK and AA), you're going to lose a pretty bit of money. That just happens.Based on your reads and her tendency to overbet, this is a situation I'd dream of. QQ is worlds ahead of all but 2 hands preflop, and she just committed herself after we've seen her do that sort of thing with much less than marginal holdings.If she wants to go, I'd put some faith in my reads and do it up one time with her. From what you've said, it sounds like she's making some rookie NL moves, and I'd confidently think she was either overvaluing a smaller pocket pair, or big cards like AK down to AJ. If it was some moron thing like AJ suited, then I'll take a 400 race when I'm 70/30 favorite.I understand that cash game poker isn't really about moving in, but the situation presents itself here. Close your eyes and go for it, and if she was ahead or drew out, shrug and say it happens. I think more often than not in that situation she'll sheepishly turn up something like 88 or AQs.

[cdddc75]

TJ_Eckleburg said:

I can't believe everyone's saying fold.Now, I realize you're posting this because it's a hand that made you think about things, and that probably means you pushed and lost.However, if you run QQ into better hands (and by better I mean only KK and AA), you're going to lose a pretty bit of money.  That just happens.Based on your reads and her tendency to overbet, this is a situation I'd dream of.  QQ is worlds ahead of all but 2 hands preflop, and she just committed herself after we've seen her do that sort of thing with much less than marginal holdings.If she wants to go, I'd put some faith in my reads and do it up one time with her.  From what you've said, it sounds like she's making some rookie NL moves, and I'd confidently think she was either overvaluing a smaller pocket pair, or big cards like AK down to AJ.  If it was some moron thing like AJ suited, then I'll take a 400 race when I'm 70/30 favorite.I understand that cash game poker isn't really about moving in, but the situation presents itself here.  Close your eyes and go for it, and if she was ahead or drew out, shrug and say it happens.  I think more often than not  in that situation she'll sheepishly turn up something like 88 or AQs.

We haven't seen any other examples of her going 10x over a preflop raise before. If she's making raises/reraises THAT wild, then pushing is the better choice. Only a true donk would call in this spot.Who's to say that she hasn't set up a trap by overplaying smaller cards to a smaller degree? No reason to burn so much of my stack on a guess when I can clearly make money by outplaying the table.

[Mr Monkey]

711Buddha said:

$125 seems like a suspiciously large raise on your comparatively meager bet.  Were her other All-In bets with junk pre-flop?  Can you get any read on her at all?  Full game?Folding QQ pre-flop is not a real option as you've mentioned her range of hands is considerably larger than AA or KK.  You're ahead of anything else.  (In a full game 1:11 hands someone will have AA or KK, but you gotta figure you'll be way ahead playing agressively the other 10 times, and even if you run into AA or KK you are only a 5:1 dog.)  If you call, what's her move after the flop?  Undoubtedly check or fire again, maybe check raise - the point is if she's got you beat, you are going to pay more than just the call.  If a K or A comes can you lay this down?  Tough questions.  Would a raise win it right now?  Is she capable of folding at all?  I like coming back over the top here.  Put it all in the middle.  If you are best, she may just be your ATM all nite.  Of course, that's easy to say with your money.

this post and TJ_Eckleburg's post is exactly why moving all in with AA is a good idea. whether she was being deceptive on purpose or not by playing weird hands she has got u to think she is a fish. whether she is a fish or not it doesnt realy matter casue if u can be convinced so easily that she doesnt have a hand your in trouble when u play a good player. even if she is a fish she can still have AA or KK. even if she has AK its a race. if shes such a bad player why let her race with u and give her a reasoable chance to take your money with out out playing u. thats assuming u aint already killed by AA or KK. cant believe anyone would call such an outragous raise with QQ.

[rawl316]

Mr Monkey said:

this post and TJ_Eckleburg's post is exactly why moving all in with AA is a good idea. whether she was being deceptive on purpose or not by playing weird hands she has got u to think she is a fish. whether she is a fish or not it doesnt realy matter casue if u can be convinced so easily that she doesnt have a hand your in trouble when u play a good player. even if she is a fish she can still have AA or KK. even if she has AK its a race. if shes such a bad player why let her race with u and give her a reasoable chance to take your money with out out playing u. thats assuming u aint already killed by AA or KK. cant believe anyone would call such an outragous raise with QQ.

I'm not saying I would call. I simply said that you guys all make it seem like it's an easy fold. i probably would fold too, but you can bet I'd think about it for a minute. someone call clock!