69 replies to this topic

[chgocubs99]

Jada's post got me thinking. Here is a list of the top 15 most likely Hall of Famers (active players only ) from basketball-reference.com.

The question:

If they retired TODAY, who's in, who's out?

If you want to expand by talking about who you think will get in based off of their future performance, that's cool...but I don't see how there's anyway to know right now if Gilbert Arenas will end up being a Hall of Famer.


1. Shaquille O'Neal 1.0000
2. Tim Duncan 1.0000
3. Kobe Bryant 1.0000
4. Kevin Garnett 1.0000
5. Allen Iverson 1.0000
6. LeBron James 0.9993
7. Dirk Nowitzki 0.9984
8. Steve Nash 0.9972
9. Jason Kidd 0.9842
10. Tracy McGrady 0.9782
11. Paul Pierce 0.9386
12. Ray Allen 0.9085
13. Vince Carter 0.8975
14. Grant Hill 0.7951
15. Tony Parker 0.5793
16. Gilbert Arenas 0.5431


I don't have much time so I'll add more thoughts later.

The top 5 are in. Lebron would be close, if you want to give someone the "Jim Brown" effect I think he's in too. Dirk and Nash are probably in though I think they are both overrated. Kidd is in for sure. McGrady...really? I guess he had 4 or 5 dominant scoring years but I didn't expect to see him here. I'm 50/50 on him but the probablity here says he's almost certainly getting in. Pierce is probably in and with another title he's 100% in. Same goes for Allen. Carter...eh. Again, had some huge seasons but I wouldn't vote him in. The last three are certainly not in in my eyes (I guess I could have left the last two off the list)

What do you think?

[CaneBrain]

Jada's post got me thinking. Here is a list of the top 15 most likely Hall of Famers (active players only ) from basketball-reference.com.

The question:

If they retired TODAY, who's in, who's out?

If you want to expand by talking about who you think will get in based off of their future performance, that's cool...but I don't see how there's anyway to know right now if Gilbert Arenas will end up being a Hall of Famer.


1. Shaquille O'Neal 1.0000
2. Tim Duncan 1.0000
3. Kobe Bryant 1.0000
4. Kevin Garnett 1.0000
5. Allen Iverson 1.0000
6. LeBron James 0.9993
7. Dirk Nowitzki 0.9984
8. Steve Nash 0.9972
9. Jason Kidd 0.9842
10. Tracy McGrady 0.9782
11. Paul Pierce 0.9386
12. Ray Allen 0.9085
13. Vince Carter 0.8975
14. Grant Hill 0.7951
15. Tony Parker 0.5793
16. Gilbert Arenas 0.5431


I don't have much time so I'll add more thoughts later.

The top 5 are in. Lebron would be close, if you want to give someone the "Jim Brown" effect I think he's in too. Dirk and Nash are probably in though I think they are both overrated. Kidd is in for sure. McGrady...really? I guess he had 4 or 5 dominant scoring years but I didn't expect to see him here. I'm 50/50 on him but the probablity here says he's almost certainly getting in. Pierce is probably in and with another title he's 100% in. Same goes for Allen. Carter...eh. Again, had some huge seasons but I wouldn't vote him in. The last three are certainly not in in my eyes (I guess I could have left the last two off the list)

What do you think?

I dont understand why Lebron is so high on this list (if he retired tomorrow he is NOT a hall of famer......its not a debate) and Wade is not there.

I agree completely that Lebron has a higher ceiling and will be a better player eventually than Wade. But, to this point, hasnt Wade had the better career? He has the title and the Finals MVP at least.

[FCP Bob]

I dont understand why Lebron is so high on this list (if he retired tomorrow he is NOT a hall of famer......its not a debate) and Wade is not there.

I agree completely that Lebron has a higher ceiling and will be a better player eventually than Wade. But, to this point, hasnt Wade had the better career? He has the title and the Finals MVP at least.

No, Wade hasn't had a better career.

He was injured for most one of season.

His team when he was paired with the greatest center of this generation won a championship but being on a Championship Team even if you're the best player on that team doesn't mean you've had a better career than somebody who has had the best start to a career in the history of basketball.

And I would say that LeBron would be a Hall of Famer if he somehow was hit by a bus after this season.

[FCP Bob]

What do you think?

I think that there is no way in Hell that Vince Carter or Tracey McGrady should make the Hall of Fame. They have Hall of Fame skills but fail in other areas.

I don't think Ray Allen should be in the Hall. He's been a good player for a long time but at no point has he been close to being considered the best player at his position. No matter how many championships the Celtics win and I think that will be zero in the near future he doesn't cut it for me.

[keith crime]

The Basketball Hall of Fame is weird - you can get in just by being a dominant college player

[I_fold08]

there needs to be separate hall of fame's imo.

who gets in the hall first yao or tmac?

[Poppy_Hillis]

Jada's post got me thinking. Here is a list of the top 15 most likely Hall of Famers (active players only ) from basketball-reference.com.

The question:

If they retired TODAY, who's in, who's out?

If you want to expand by talking about who you think will get in based off of their future performance, that's cool...but I don't see how there's anyway to know right now if Gilbert Arenas will end up being a Hall of Famer.


1. Shaquille O'Neal 1.0000
2. Tim Duncan 1.0000
3. Kobe Bryant 1.0000
4. Kevin Garnett 1.0000
5. Allen Iverson 1.0000
6. LeBron James 0.9993 Not a HOF today
7. Dirk Nowitzki 0.9984 Not if he retired today, but will be barring injury.
8. Steve Nash 0.9972 Strange case. I think he makes it though.
9. Jason Kidd 0.9842 This should be 100%
10. Tracy McGrady 0.9782 No way.
11. Paul Pierce 0.9386 **** the Celtics.
12. Ray Allen 0.9085 See above.
13. Vince Carter 0.8975 If he gets in, someone should blow up the HOF.
14. Grant Hill 0.7951 Unfortunately no.
15. Tony Parker 0.5793 Oh my god, he might be when it's said and done. Who knew?
16. Gilbert Arenas 0.5431 Pffff


I don't have much time so I'll add more thoughts later.

The top 5 are in. Lebron would be close, if you want to give someone the "Jim Brown" effect I think he's in too. Dirk and Nash are probably in though I think they are both overrated. Kidd is in for sure. McGrady...really? I guess he had 4 or 5 dominant scoring years but I didn't expect to see him here. I'm 50/50 on him but the probablity here says he's almost certainly getting in. Pierce is probably in and with another title he's 100% in. Same goes for Allen. Carter...eh. Again, had some huge seasons but I wouldn't vote him in. The last three are certainly not in in my eyes (I guess I could have left the last two off the list)

What do you think?

[CaneBrain]

No, Wade hasn't had a better career.

He was injured for most one of season.

His team when he was paired with the greatest center of this generation won a championship but being on a Championship Team even if you're the best player on that team doesn't mean you've had a better career than somebody who has had the best start to a career in the history of basketball.

And I would say that LeBron would be a Hall of Famer if he somehow was hit by a bus after this season.

None of that explains how Lebron is 6 and Wade is N/A.

Yes, he missed 30+ games last year. Otherwise, their numbers are pretty similar and Wade has had more team success (Shaq had slowed down noticeably by 2006 anyways). I can understand Lebron being above Wade but not by so much.

[Jadaki]

1. Shaquille O'Neal 1.0000
2. Tim Duncan 1.0000
3. Kobe Bryant 1.0000
4. Kevin Garnett 1.0000
5. Allen Iverson 1.0000
6. LeBron James 0.9993
7. Dirk Nowitzki 0.9984
8. Steve Nash 0.9972
9. Jason Kidd 0.9842
10. Tracy McGrady 0.9782
11. Paul Pierce 0.9386
12. Ray Allen 0.9085
13. Vince Carter 0.8975
14. Grant Hill 0.7951
15. Tony Parker 0.5793
16. Gilbert Arenas 0.5431

Top 5 are in.

Lebron isn't even close, everyone in the top 15 are more accomplished on the professional level than Lebron is today, not to mention some of them had phenominal college careers. No one with a 5 year pro career gets in. And lol at him having the best first 5 years of a pro career.
Dirk is probably close. Losing the title in 06 would hurt his chances if he retired today.
Steve Nash is probably in. He is a two time MVP afterall.
Jason Kidd, probably in. Good career, no title... not 100% sold on it. The impressive amount of triple doubles probably gets him in.
T-mac, not in, never been out of the first round really hurts his resume.
Pierce is in, impressive college and pro careers, with a title.
Ray Allen, easy in. May go down as the greatest shooter the game has ever seen.
Vince, not in, needs to find a way to get on a title contender.
Grant Hill, not in based on his pro career. Hurt way to often, might get in with help of his college resume.
Tony Parker, 3rd wheel on a couple title teams, not in just yet. Needs 4-5 more good individual years.
Why is Arenas on this list? In for best blog?

[Cappy37]

McGrady and Carter are the most interesting cases.

I Think Ray Allen is a shoo in, even Before Pierce.

Grant Hill.. sigh.. what could have been.

Don't hang up the phone on Arenas, he's still pretty damn young. He sure as hell ain't in today, but time is on his side.

Interesting list. Who would have thought 5 years ago TMac and VC were going to be *anything* other than complete locks for the HOF.

[BigDMcGee]

LEbron's too young.

Dirk is a top 10 power forward of all time, he should be a lock.

Nash has 2 mvp's, should be a lock.

Kidd was the best point guard of his generation, should be a lock.

Pierce and Ray Ray are in for sure now.

Vince should not be in. He was a hall of fame talent, that never lived up to it.

T-Mac is another hall of fame talent that should not be in. Both of them would need to back door a NBA title to get there.

Grant hill could definately get in due to college resume, but it would be like a decade or more after he was eligible.

Tony Parker is definatly on his way. If he'd won his titles on like the lakers, he's probably be in.... the jury is still out.

[Poppy_Hillis]

Fleur looks like Pau Gasol to me.

[chgocubs99]

None of that explains how Lebron is 6 and Wade is N/A.

Yes, he missed 30+ games last year. Otherwise, their numbers are pretty similar and Wade has had more team success (Shaq had slowed down noticeably by 2006 anyways). I can understand Lebron being above Wade but not by so much.

I can ony assume that Wade isn't on the list because of some sort of minimum requirement that hasn't been hit yet. I can't find it on the site so I don't know what it is. They came in the league at the same time so that clearly isn't it, but it excludes a lot of players from that draft class except for James.

Also...

One of the reasons Nash is a shoo in is that he is a 2 time MVP award. However, one could argue that he didn't deserve one or both of those awards. Do you think he would be in otherwise?

[keith crime]

I don't know if any of you read the baseball writer Bill James but he ranks players in two different ways - career value and peak value

peak value being how good you were at your absolute best

to me Lebron's peak value is so much higher than someone like Ray Allen it's a joke

has there really ever been a single year where if you chose the 5 best players in the league Ray Allen would be one of them?

[I_fold08]

after seeing him get hurt in the game tonight what about Dikembe Mutombo. surely he is in

[chgocubs99]

I don't know if any of you read the baseball writer Bill James but he ranks players in two different ways - career value and peak value

peak value being how good you were at your absolute best

to me Lebron's peak value is so much higher than someone like Ray Allen it's a joke

has there really ever been a single year where if you chose the 5 best players in the league Ray Allen would be one of them?

Please let's not get started with the Lebron fanboy stuff in this thread too. The third sentence in your paragraph is totally unrelated to any Hall of Fame discussion.

I mean, I get your point...would you rather a career made up of a 6 time MVP who is an average NBA player his other 10 seasons, or a 14 time All Star who is never in the top 3 of MVP voting?

I think there are room for both types of players though depending on their specific accomplishments.

[BigDMcGee]

Also, Ray Allen's best seasons were on terrible bucks and sonics teams. He has been, for years now, the best pure shooter in the game. If Reggie Miller is a hall of famer, Allen surely is ( who's better at penetration and off the dribble than Miller ever was)

[Jadaki]

Also, Ray Allen's best seasons were on terrible bucks and sonics teams. He has been, for years now, the best pure shooter in the game. If Reggie Miller is a hall of famer, Allen surely is ( who's better at penetration and off the dribble than Miller ever was)

Well he does got game...

[I_fold08]

Well he does got game...

potd and

reggie miller would smack ray allen not even close

[BigDMcGee]

potd and

reggie miller would smack ray allen not even close

You obviously haven't watched Ray Allen's career. I would take Miller over Allen, if I only needed a pure shooter, but if I needed him to do anything else at all, I'd take allen.