17 replies to this topic

[TheCinciKid]

I think I'm the only one who ever posts new threads in this forum, but I'm gonna keep doing it from time to time and maybe we'll eventually get some action again.I've been playing live 3/6 quite a bit lately and I've noticed a trend which I think is likely a leak for most players. With blinds of 1 and 3, it seems that otherwise decent/good players are completing out of the small blind too much. A good example was a player tonight who seemed pretty solid for the most part, but I remember seeing him showdown and Q6o which he'd limped in with from the SB, this seemed like a pretty clear leak to me, but I suppose I could be wrong. Thoughts?

[waylander11]

It depends on how many people are in the pot. If you play better than the rest of the table, I think you could probably make a very marginal profit calling with any two if there are 3 or 4 limpers in front of you. There are position advantages to being the small blind too, for example you have the best relative position on the table, meaning you get to see how everyone reacts to the people in front of you if you check. If it checks around to late position there is also an advantage in being able to throw in a reraise and isolate if you have a hand that plays better with 2 or 3 people. Its also really bad for your image if you're folding your small blind every time, you'll look like a complete nit.

[pokerinc]

doesn't matter how many people are in pre, q6off is a nice fold from the sb. How are you getting paid on flops, what are you hoping for, how can you feel comfy?there's just no need to play it.

[Danege]

pokerinc, on Sunday, April 5th, 2009, 12:29 PM, said:

doesn't matter how many people are in pre, q6off is a nice fold from the sb. How are you getting paid on flops, what are you hoping for, how can you feel comfy?there's just no need to play it.

Especially with a 1/3 blind structure.

[DinkDonk]

pokerinc, on Saturday, April 4th, 2009, 10:29 PM, said:

doesn't matter how many people are in pre, q6off is a nice fold from the sb. How are you getting paid on flops, what are you hoping for, how can you feel comfy?there's just no need to play it.

Danege, on Monday, April 6th, 2009, 11:25 AM, said:

Especially with a 1/3 blind structure.

So, just to be clear here, if everyone limps in front at a 9 handed table, you guys fold Q6o for 12.5 to 1?Hmmm... I'm not sure if it's right, but I'm never folding for like 8+ to 1 there.

[antistuff]

DinkDonk, on Tuesday, April 7th, 2009, 6:12 AM, said:

So, just to be clear here, if everyone limps in front at a 9 handed table, you guys fold Q6o for 12.5 to 1?Hmmm... I'm not sure if it's right, but I'm never folding for like 8+ to 1 there.

with the rake at 3/6 live....eh....might not be so greatjump into a 10/20 game...you're giving up a little by folding

[DinkDonk]

antistuff, on Tuesday, April 7th, 2009, 9:40 PM, said:

with the rake at 3/6 live....eh....might not be so greatjump into a 10/20 game...you're giving up a little by folding

Sounds completely fair to me.

[Danege]

DinkDonk, on Tuesday, April 7th, 2009, 8:12 PM, said:

Hmmm... I'm not sure if it's right, but I'm never folding for like 8+ to 1 there.

I was thinking more 6 max with one or two limpers where you'd be getting <8 to 1

[TheCinciKid]

Alright, let me chime in here.In the small blind, you're going to be completing with a pretty wide range in a 3/6 game, but some hands just aren't good enough, imo. Let's say the average pot has 3.5 limpers (I know that's not an even number, but that seems to be about average) if you want to be generous, we can even go 4 limpers. That means that (including the BB), we're getting 7.5-1 to limp from the SB, which is great, BUT we have the worst position at the table postflop. We're still gonna be playing anything suited, most connected hands, and a lot of other hands, but there are some hands that just don't play well enough, even getting those odds. Examples would be the aforementioned Q6o, anything offsuit Ace with an 8 or lower and many other raggedy hands. Keep in mind, that the blind structure is 1-3 and the SB is taken before the flop for the bad beat drop. If the blind structure were something like 2-4 (as in a 4/8 game) or even 2-3, we'd be getting much better odds and we could call with almost anything. With it being 1-3, it's necessary to tighten up a bit and some hands are going to be losers, even getting almost 8-1.

[RISEorFall]

on the other end, UB's 3/6 game has 2/3 blinds, and most people there don't defend it enough.even with a single raise and no callers you only have to call 4 with 11 in the pot, almost 3-1 (call it 2.5-1 w/ rake)so it's also good to steal from the SB, too, because you're risking 4 to win 5.

[DinkDonk]

Played this hand and thought about this thread. Poker Stars $30/$60 Limit Hold'em - 5 players - View hand 90635The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History ConverterPre Flop: (1.5 SB) Hero is BB with 2 4 UTG raises, CO calls, BTN calls, SB calls, Hero callsFlop: (10 SB) 2 T 7 (5 players)SB checks, Hero checks, UTG bets, CO calls, BTN calls, SB calls, Hero callsTurn: (7.5 BB) K (5 players)SB checks, Hero checks, UTG bets, CO calls, BTN calls, SB calls, Hero callsRiver: (12.5 BB) 2 (5 players)SB checks, Hero checks, UTG bets, CO folds, BTN folds, SB folds, Hero raises, UTG callsFinal Pot: 16.5 BBHero shows 2 4 (three of a kind, Deuces)Hero wins 16.467 BB(Rake: $2.00)

[Danege]

DinkDonk, on Thursday, April 9th, 2009, 8:42 PM, said:

Played this hand and thought about this thread. Poker Stars $30/$60 Limit Hold'em - 5 players - View hand 90635The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History ConverterPre Flop: (1.5 SB) Hero is BB with 2 4 UTG raises, CO calls, BTN calls, SB calls, Hero callsFlop: (10 SB) 2 T 7 (5 players)SB checks, Hero checks, UTG bets, CO calls, BTN calls, SB calls, Hero callsTurn: (7.5 BB) K (5 players)SB checks, Hero checks, UTG bets, CO calls, BTN calls, SB calls, Hero callsRiver: (12.5 BB) 2 (5 players)SB checks, Hero checks, UTG bets, CO folds, BTN folds, SB folds, Hero raises, UTG callsFinal Pot: 16.5 BBHero shows 2 4 (three of a kind, Deuces)Hero wins 16.467 BB(Rake: $2.00)

Thats some run goot right there!

[antistuff]

DinkDonk, on Thursday, April 9th, 2009, 6:42 AM, said:

Played this hand and thought about this thread. Poker Stars $30/$60 Limit Hold'em - 5 players - View hand 90635The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History ConverterPre Flop: (1.5 SB) Hero is BB with 2 4 UTG raises, CO calls, BTN calls, SB calls, Hero callsFlop: (10 SB) 2 T 7 (5 players)SB checks, Hero checks, UTG bets, CO calls, BTN calls, SB calls, Hero callsTurn: (7.5 BB) K (5 players)SB checks, Hero checks, UTG bets, CO calls, BTN calls, SB calls, Hero callsRiver: (12.5 BB) 2 (5 players)SB checks, Hero checks, UTG bets, CO folds, BTN folds, SB folds, Hero raises, UTG callsFinal Pot: 16.5 BBHero shows 2 4 (three of a kind, Deuces)Hero wins 16.467 BB(Rake: $2.00)

so you're saying that when loose passive fish do exactly this we don't have quite the edge over them that we think we do?

[antistuff]

TheCinciKid, on Wednesday, April 8th, 2009, 2:42 AM, said:

Alright, let me chime in here.In the small blind, you're going to be completing with a pretty wide range in a 3/6 game, but some hands just aren't good enough, imo. Let's say the average pot has 3.5 limpers (I know that's not an even number, but that seems to be about average) if you want to be generous, we can even go 4 limpers. That means that (including the BB), we're getting 7.5-1 to limp from the SB, which is great, BUT we have the worst position at the table postflop. We're still gonna be playing anything suited, most connected hands, and a lot of other hands, but there are some hands that just don't play well enough, even getting those odds. Examples would be the aforementioned Q6o, anything offsuit Ace with an 8 or lower and many other raggedy hands. Keep in mind, that the blind structure is 1-3 and the SB is taken before the flop for the bad beat drop. If the blind structure were something like 2-4 (as in a 4/8 game) or even 2-3, we'd be getting much better odds and we could call with almost anything. With it being 1-3, it's necessary to tighten up a bit and some hands are going to be losers, even getting almost 8-1.

you are going to start a religious war with the Q6o defenders.

[DinkDonk]

antistuff, on Thursday, April 9th, 2009, 1:40 PM, said:

so you're saying that when loose passive fish do exactly this we don't have quite the edge over them that we think we do?

Heh. You miiiiiiiight say that, yes.

antistuff, on Thursday, April 9th, 2009, 1:41 PM, said:

you are going to start a religious war with the Q6o defenders.

Lol again. I'm sort of with him on the Q6o, but holy hell, he wants me to fold Ax for like 8-1! I haaaaaaaate folding.

[antistuff]

DinkDonk, on Thursday, April 9th, 2009, 3:00 PM, said:

Heh. You miiiiiiiight say that, yes.Lol again. I'm sort of with him on the Q6o, but holy hell, he wants me to fold Ax for like 8-1! I haaaaaaaate folding.

lol :)imo one of the hallmarks of a good limit poker player is that they hate folding. they should feel like you're a suborn brick wall that they keep bashing their heads up against and losing when you call them with king high.

[TheCinciKid]

DinkDonk, on Thursday, April 9th, 2009, 12:00 PM, said:

lol again. I'm sort of with him on the Q6o, but holy hell, he wants me to fold Ax for like 8-1! I haaaaaaaate folding.

3/6 live is such a different game than higher level LHE games. And I just don't think completing the SB with Ax off is good often enough to make it profitable. Not in that game. I could be wrong though.

[DinkDonk]

TheCinciKid, on Thursday, April 9th, 2009, 8:28 PM, said:

3/6 live is such a different game than higher level LHE games. And I just don't think completing the SB with Ax off is good often enough to make it profitable. Not in that game. I could be wrong though.

Heh. I was sort of just kidding. But to be serious for a second, I think that you would benefit a bit from opening up. Not really for any money reason, but you'd find yourself in some marginal spots and better equip yourself to deal with players who will make your life hard as you move up. And honestly, any hand in that sort of spot is going to be close anyway.