7 replies to this topic

[jmbreslin]

I've been thinking a lot aboud DoN strategy lately and I've been wondering if it makes sense to try to play smaller pots and avoid committing your stack without a very strong hand (unless you're short and have no choice). I'm thinking specifically about the kinds of moves that are important in regular STT strategy, where accumulating chips is more important than in a DoN (where survivival is more important) - moves like resteals or putting your stack in when you're most likely racing from behind if called. Why? Because in DoNs, getting full value and accumulating as many chips as possible isn't as important, so there is less incentive to make big moves to achieve those goals.

Take the following hand as an example:

9 players, blinds are 25/50. UTG raises to 150, MP calls, folded to you in the SB w/ AK. Your stacks are all similar, in the 1300-1600 range. You don't have enough info on either player to give you a read at this point.

In a regular STT I'm pushing here without hesitation because (1) I have a lot of FE and might take the pot and (2) I'm willing to take the race from behind if called to double.

But in a DoN, is picking up the 400ish pot worth the risk of racing from behind and busting out? Or might Hero be better off flat calling to see a flop or perhaps even making a standard reraise?

In general I'm wondering if it's better DoN strategy to scale back the aggression a bit and focus on playing smaller pots and preserving chips (monster hands aside, obviously).

[Chet Chetterson]

I think if everyone is somewhat competent then you need to preserve chips more. I still think that at lower levels (1.10) that you should play normal SnG early to try and get a quick double up from a fish so that you can coast through the rest of the match. However, I would look to set up a trap as opposed to ship AK like in your example.

Never resteal early, it's not worth it.

I'm sure others will say be even more conservative than you are suggesting, even if you can outplay people. I don't like that philosophy since you should take advantage of weak players but I don't blame them either.

[jmbreslin]

I'm expecting people to tell me conservative is for weak nits.

I play the $5.40 level and the play is noticeably tighter and more passive than regular $5 STTs. It seems that most players have adjusted their strategy and take a more cautious approach, though you still get the donks to call raises with K3s in the early stages. But I'm amazed at how often we get to blind levels of 50/100 with 8 or 9 players still remaining.

[cdipierr]

Nah, being nitty in DoNs is ok, it's your other SnGs that are the problem

In this specific case, we obviously aren't folding AK, so the problem becomes how to play AK if we flop an A or K out of position against 2 players. Do we treat it as the nuts? If not, then I think we have to consider bumping AK preflop. If so, how confident are we against something like an AJ2 rainbow flop? If we bet and we're raised, what do we do? I can't imagine it's right to call preflop, lead a flop like that and fold to any raise. Given this, I think due to being out of position, we need to play a bigger pot with AK here. But it'd be different if you were on the button, I'd prefer a call there.

[jmbreslin]

Valid point about being OOP in that AK hand. I'd certainly consider reraising PF but I question whether pushing was the right play.

On an unrelated note, I'm already becoming bored with the DoNs (what a tedious grind) so I've returned to the 45-turbos after a long hiatus. I wish I had more time to play MTTs, especially non-turbos, because I really do enjoy them more than STTs. In any case, the 45-turbos treated me pretty well when I was addicted to them so I'm going to see if they can get my roll-building back on track. Off to a decent start tonight, with a 4th and 5th out of 4 tournies.

[cdipierr]

I think the AK is a push because you'll get a lot of folds in a DoN, and worse case you're racing...not ideal early, but sometimes the cards align that way.

I don't play DoNs hold 'em these days, but DoN PLO is kind of fun because it's much easier to double up early in my statistically small sample set.

[jmbreslin]

Every now and then I open a $1 PLO DoN for fun but I find that the high variance nature of PLO doesn't fit well with the survival strategy required in DoNs. Also much harder to build a stack early in a PL structure. Very annoying to hit big hands early when the pots are small, and then go card dead when the pots are actually worth something. But I'm probably playing too tight in the early stages. In PLO DoNs you probably should work harder for early chip accumulation than you would in a NLHE DoN by seeing flops and driving big draws hard.

[Chet Chetterson]

I agree with JM on PLO, although to be fair Omaha is probably my weakest game.