30 replies to this topic

[bascomeb]

In limit there are really only two hands I can see being a profit to raise from the bb with after several limpers have come on.Big pairs.. of courseSuited connectors. I've found this to be profitable because since limpers have already come in they will call another bet immediately. This just adds to a monster pot for a hand that is very easy to get rid of if doesn't hit and is backbreaking for someone if you do hit. Generrally if I have AK in the bb I would not raise unless it was suited because your giving away the strength to your hand and not narrowing the field at all. To me checking here would be bestAny more hands that should be raised in the bb or maybe not raised?

[BeanGW]

bascomeb said:

Generrally if I have AK in the bb I would not raise unless it was suited because your giving away the strength to your hand and not narrowing the field at all. To me checking here would be best

Narrowing the field is not the point. Raising for value is. Pot equity baby! Raise it up!

[Emptyeye]

Giving away the strength of your hand is fine. Most people aren't going to be paying attention anyway (Of course, I play micro-limits, so your results may vary), and even if they are, you should be raising with a wide enough range of hands that they're not going to immediately presume "O NOES it r big slick".With an AK in the BB, I'm not necessarily looking to knock people out when I raise--I'm looking to build the pot for when I do hit. You're about 30% to flop an ace or a king (This is oversimplfying, yes, but we can pretty reasonably presume you'll be good when you do hit one of those if no one has raised), so with only 3 limpers in the pot, it becomes profitable to raise Slick from the BB.Just my thoughts.

[bascomeb]

Generally though would you say that it takes a stronger hand to raise from the bb then any other position?

[Rocketwadster]

If I have 3 or more limpers in front of me and I am in the BB with A K (suited or not), I do not raise the majority of the time. To me, all this seems to do is build a pot for people to chase their draws/second pair/bottom pair in. Plus, it helps add a bit of deception to the mix, as most people would expect you to raise with AK here, so when you don't and get a good flop you may actually make more money than if you had raised (as they may think their A Q or A J is best here). :wink:

[bascomeb]

now thats what i'm talking about. gotta mix it up a bit. they won't see AK coming

[amarillotg]

i raise AK AQ AJ KQ suited or not from either blind. obviously AA-JJ is a raise as well.your not trying to drive people out of the pot. your trying to build a pot when you most likely have the best hand.

[Emptyeye]

Rocketwadster said:

Plus, it helps add a bit of deception to the mix, as most people would expect you to raise with AK here, so when you don't and get a good flop you may actually make more money than if you had raised (as they may think their A Q or A J is best here). :wink:

The thing is that if it's limped in, you're almost certainly not against an AQ, and probably not an AJ either. The only thing you have a realistic chance of "deceiving" is a weak ace when you both hit (Who would probably have called you all the way down anyway), or something like a KJ when you both hit the king (See above).That's how I see it anyway.

[Rocketwadster]

The thing is that if it's limped in, you're almost certainly not against an AQ, and probably not an AJ either. The only thing you have a realistic chance of "deceiving" is a weak ace when you both hit (Who would probably have called you all the way down anyway), or something like a KJ when you both hit the king (See above).That's how I see it anyway.[/quote]At the levels I play at (0.25/0.50 or 0.50/1.00), I see more limpers with ace jack offsuit and ace queen offsuit than raisers. I do it myself if I have 2 or more limpers in front of me on occasion. :wink:

[amarillotg]

the problem with your guys thinking is that your trying to find a way to lose the least amount of money instead of trying to figure out a way to win the most .

[Filesharer]

bascomeb said:

Generally though would you say that it takes a stronger hand to raise from the bb then any other position?

Yeah, as sweeping statements go, this is a pretty sound one.

[Rocketwadster]

amarillotg said:

the problem with your guys thinking is that your trying to find a way to lose the least amount of money instead of trying to figure out a way to win the most .

Not exactly...i believe this is a good example of minimizing your losses and maximizing your profits... :wink:

[amarillotg]

[/quote]At the levels I play at (0.25/0.50 or 0.50/1.00), I see more limpers with ace jack offsuit and ace queen offsuit than raisers. I do it myself if I have 2 or more limpers in front of me on occasion. :wink:[/quote][quote]amarillotg wrote: the problem with your guys thinking is that your trying to find a way to lose the least amount of money instead of trying to figure out a way to win the most . Not exactly...i believe this is a good example of minimizing your losses and maximizing your profits...[/quote]ok, so if people at the limits you play start limping with AA KK and QQ are you going to start limping too?

[Rocketwadster]

ok, so if people at the limits you play start limping with AA KK and QQ are you going to start limping too?[/quote]you are getting all mixed up there feller. Read the original post, then my original response. Don't start talking about how other hands would be played etc. It is very clear what I was saying... :wink:

[amarillotg]

Rocketwadster]ok, on so if people at the limits you play start limping with AA KK and QQ are you going to start limping too?[/quote, said:

you are getting all mixed up there feller. Read the original post, then my original response. Don't start talking about how other hands would be played etc. It is very clear what I was saying... :wink:

someone please help. :wall:

[Rocketwadster]

someone please help. :wall:[/quote]what do you need help with? don't try to justify your answer by changing the original question. I stated that the reason I don't raise with ace king in the BB is that it will only build the pot (rather than narrow the field), which will only make it more enticing for second pair/bottom pair/draws to chase me down to the river. Am I wrong for having this opinion - no, because an opinion cannot be wrong. I may be mistaken in thinking this is the best way to play that hand, but based on my experiences to date, I stand by my opinion. :wink:

[Emptyeye]

[quote=Rocketwadster]someone please help. :wall:[/quote]what do you need help with? don't try to justify your answer by changing the original question. I stated that the reason I don't raise with ace king in the BB is that it will only build the pot (rather than narrow the field), which will only make it more enticing for second pair/bottom pair/draws to chase me down to the river. Am I wrong for having this opinion - no, because an opinion cannot be wrong. I may be mistaken in thinking this is the best way to play that hand, but based on my experiences to date, I stand by my opinion. :wink:[/quote]Well, if that's your opinion, then fine, but remember, you WANT second-best hands calling you down to the river. If said hands/draws/whatever miss more often than they hit, then the more money in the pot, the more you win.

[cdddc75]

Rocketwadster said:

If I have 3 or more limpers in front of me and I am in the BB with A K (suited or not), I do not raise the majority of the time. To me, all this seems to do is build a pot for people to chase their draws/second pair/bottom pair in. Plus, it helps add a bit of deception to the mix, as most people would expect you to raise with AK here, so when you don't and get a good flop you may actually make more money than if you had raised (as they may think their A Q or A J is best here). :wink:

Hope this link helps:http://www.google.co.....22pot equity"FPS sucks.

[Rocketwadster]

Hope this link helps:[url="http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLD,GGLD:2004-14,GGLD:en&q=%22pot+equity%22"]http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navc...22pot+equity%22[/url]which one am I supposed to click to help me understand something?FPS sucks.[/quote]Sorry, but what does FPS mean? Fancy play syndrome? There is nothing fancy about what I have said.

[amarillotg]

[quote=Rocketwadster]someone please help. :wall:[/quote]what do you need help with? don't try to justify your answer by changing the original question. I stated that the reason I don't raise with ace king in the BB is that it will only build the pot (rather than narrow the field), which will only make it more enticing for second pair/bottom pair/draws to chase me down to the river. Am I wrong for having this opinion - no, because an opinion cannot be wrong. I may be mistaken in thinking this is the best way to play that hand, but based on my experiences to date, I stand by my opinion. :wink:[/quote]im trying to adjust the situation to let you see why your play is incorrect. if you don't want to build the pot when you probably have the best hand then so be it. but don't tell me its the correct play.you won't raise with AKs with 3 limpers in.you have a 41% chance of winning the pot and you have to put in 25% of the money.This is an edge for you! Push it!