71 replies to this topic

[vbnautilus]

Let's get some life in here!

Question for the religious folks...

It seems to me that if something is true now, we should be able to discover that it is true now. To give an example, if we somehow lost all knowledge about what the composition of water is, we could re-discover this information since it is still true. We would just have to make the appropriate observations.

Are your religious truths discoverable in the same way? If so, doesn't that mean that religious texts are not necessary? Let's say some people are dropped on a deserted island as kids and live there without any connection to the rest of the world. They could discover all sorts of things about nature, but it seems to me rather impossible that they will learn about Jesus or Mohammed. It also seems to me a major flaw of religion that something so supposedly important about life would not be available to these people, depending on the presence of a particular book.

I know there are religious people who don't place much emphasis on the texts, but I'm particularly interested in hearing from those people who do think, say, the bible is important, and how they deal with this issue.

[phlegm]

Faith cannot be empiracally proven nor discovered.


Spelling doesnt count.

[YonYonson]

heresy says i !!!!!

[brvheart]

Let's get some life in here!

Question for the religious folks...

It seems to me that if something is true now, we should be able to discover that it is true now. To give an example, if we somehow lost all knowledge about what the composition of water is, we could re-discover this information since it is still true. We would just have to make the appropriate observations.

Are your religious truths discoverable in the same way? If so, doesn't that mean that religious texts are not necessary? Let's say some people are dropped on a deserted island as kids and live there without any connection to the rest of the world. They could discover all sorts of things about nature, but it seems to me rather impossible that they will learn about Jesus or Mohammed. It also seems to me a major flaw of religion that something so supposedly important about life would not be available to these people, depending on the presence of a particular book.

I know there are religious people who don't place much emphasis on the texts, but I'm particularly interested in hearing from those people who do think, say, the bible is important, and how they deal with this issue.

couple things:

1. In Christian circles this is debated, so there isn't a correct answer.


2. Psalm 19


1 The heavens declare the glory of God,
and the sky above proclaims his handiwork.
2Day to day pours out speech,
and night to night reveals knowledge.
3There is no speech, nor are there words,
whose voice is not heard.
4 Their voice goes out through all the earth,
and their words to the end of the world.
In them he has set a tent for the sun,
5 which comes out like a bridegroom leaving his chamber,
and, like a strong man, runs its course with joy.
6Its rising is from the end of the heavens,
and its circuit to the end of them,
and there is nothing hidden from its heat.


3. Romans 1


20For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

21For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

22 Professing to be wise, they became fools,

23and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures.


4. Jeremiah 5


21"Hear this, O foolish and senseless people,
who have eyes, but see not,
who have ears, but hear not.

[YonYonson]

1. In Christian circles this is debated, so there isn't a correct answer.

unintentional comedy scale 7/10.

[loogie]

2. Psalm 19



3. Romans 1



4. Jeremiah 5

Well, that means that one could infer that there was God, but Jesus? I think he'd still need the Good Book for that.

[brvheart]

Well, that means that one could infer that there was God, but Jesus? I think he'd still need the Good Book for that.

This is a great question. But if Jesus IS God, as the Bible claims... then they are the same. no?


Also, the verse that Lois always quotes but doesn't know the reference, so I can't quote.... is that if you seek God you will find Him.

[brvheart]

unintentional comedy scale 7/10.

We were talking about a religious text, not if something was true or not. So take your ability to not read somewhere else.

[YonYonson]

We were talking about a religious text, not if something was true or not. So take your ability to not read somewhere else.

i also find it funny that you quoted the bible to show that people could find god and jesus without the bible.

[vbnautilus]

So to clarify, brvheart, in your opinion the bible is not necessary for one to discover all the 'truths' of christianity?

[YonYonson]

So to clarify, brvheart, in your opinion the bible is not necessary for one to discover all the 'truths' of christianity?

cant you read, vb?

this and every question is answered in the bible. ITS ALL YOU NEED.

[brvheart]

i also find it funny that you quoted the bible to show that people could find god and jesus without the bible.

You act as if I think you should worship the Bible. I don't.

So to clarify, brvheart, in your opinion the bible is not necessary for one to discover all the 'truths' of christianity?

Christianity? I could care less about Christianity.

[vbnautilus]

You act as if I think you should worship the Bible. I don't.



Christianity? I could care less about Christianity.

Yeah. Allright, but I think you knew what I meant.

Otherwise, I guess maybe you aren't the right person to answer the question in the OP.

[vbnautilus]

cant you read, vb?

this and every question is answered in the bible. ITS ALL YOU NEED.

Sure, I know they think the bible is sufficient for knowing everything important -- the question is whether it is necessary.

(sorry to be so serious, I can't think of a way to properly match your sarcasm here)

[brvheart]

Yeah. Allright, but I think you knew what I meant.

Otherwise, I guess maybe you aren't the right person to answer the question in the OP.

I think you're right. My Bible knowledge is lacking.

[YonYonson]

Sure, I know they think the bible is sufficient for knowing everything important -- the question is whether it is necessary.

(sorry to be so serious, I can't think of a way to properly match your sarcasm here)

i guess i wasnt being serious because i assumed you already know the answer to this question.

take your example of people on a deserted island. no freaking way they come up with anything resembling christianity. jesus doesnt exist. its all sun gods and wind gods and rain gods and whatever. but the christians would eventually find them and either convert them or kill them. so in the end, its all good.

[vbnautilus]

i guess i wasnt being serious because i assumed you already know the answer to this question.

take your example of people on a deserted island. no freaking way they come up with anything resembling christianity. jesus doesnt exist. its all sun gods and wind gods and rain gods and whatever. but the christians would eventually find them and either convert them or kill them. so in the end, its all good.

Right, obviously I agree, that part wasn't really the question, more just an illustration of the point... I guess I'm trying to ask: does it not bother christians that something they think is true and important cannot actually be observed in the present-day world?

[brvheart]

Right, obviously I agree, that part wasn't really the question, more just an illustration of the point... I guess I'm trying to ask: does it not bother christians that something they think is true and important cannot actually be observed in the present-day world?

no. Why would it?

[vbnautilus]

no. Why would it?

Because if something is true now, it should be just as discoverable now as it was 2000 years ago.

[brvheart]

Because if something is true now, it should be just as discoverable now as it was 2000 years ago.

It's MORE discoverable now. More than it ever has been.