13 replies to this topic

[Thriceknurd]

This hand occured during a weekly Thursday night home game. Buy-in is $25 and starting stack is 5,000. This week had 15 players. At this point in the tournament the blinds are at 100-200. I have about 7,000 in the small blind.

Preflop:
Two players limp in for 200, including the button. I call in the small blind with and the big blind checks. The pot is at 800.

Flop:

Not much going on here on this particular flop. I have a gutshot straight draw. I'm first to act and I check since I have three others behind to see what develops. Everyone checks around.

Turn:

I bet out 600. My thoughts at this point is that everyone showed weakness on the flop so I feel I can safely eliminate anyone having hit the Q. The board is now draw heavy and I make a bet hoping to get a better idea of where I stand. All three players call the 600 bet. Pot is now at 3200.

River:

A very safe card to fall here. No draws were completed with this card. At this point all I have is a pair of J's with a weak kicker. I check hoping for a cheap showdown. BB checks as does the third player. Here's where it gets interesting. The player on the button verbally moves all in instantly for about 14k. This player happened to be the chip leader at the time and had everyone else covered in the hand.

Several questions...

1. Does this look like a bluff to you?
2. If this is a rebuy tournament and still in the rebuy portion, how much do you let that affect your decision to call in this spot?
3. Is it better to make a bet on this river with my hand or to check as I did?
3. If you're the villian here what type of hands would you make an all in bet on this board, if any?

I appreciate any feedback and responses. I'll give you the results after some discussion.

[Solar]

1. Not especially, he is betting into 3 people all of whom probably have something, based on the turn action. Still a bluff sometimes, but not all that often.
2. Not at all
3. Probably check
4. None. If anything the nuts, not bluffing at three players here.


On a side note was this game actually 15 handed?!?

[Thriceknurd]

1. Not especially, he is betting into 3 people all of whom probably have something, based on the turn action. Still a bluff sometimes, but not all that often.
2. Not at all
3. Probably check
4. None. If anything the nuts, not bluffing at three players here.


On a side note was this game actually 15 handed?!?

Two tables 7/8 handed.

[outsider13]

I'll often do this with very strong hands that I've hit late, so it looks like a really dumb play and hope that people will call. I would think 33 type hand here. You have 2nd pair here with a bad kicker.

1. Not a chance
2. Still not calling
3. Check is fine. Get to the showdown cheap, and call a small bet on the river, not this one.
4. Like I said, 33 or K9/89 type hands here.

[Chris-LFC]

1. Does this look like a bluff to you?
2. If this is a rebuy tournament and still in the rebuy portion, how much do you let that affect your decision to call in this spot?
3. Is it better to make a bet on this river with my hand or to check as I did?
3. If you're the villian here what type of hands would you make an all in bet on this board, if any?

hmmmm easy fold imo,i wouldnt risk it with a pair and weak kicker...as for the questions...

1.Not really,could be but i think this is a straight or 34 of hearts a lot of the time,possibly even a set
2.i still think its a fold in a rebuy tournament tbh
3.i'd probably bet about 1000ish but im not too sure because of your stack size,checking is the safer option but id like a blocker bet here more
4.If im villain im doing it with 2 pair a set,and making a value bet with a queen or a straight but thats about it really

l8az

[MovingIn]

Wow, no one thinks villain would bluff shove this river after everyone checked the flop, called an OOP turn lead and everyone checked the river in front of him? If I'm villain, it looks like no one else wants this pot, but would call any bet other than an overbet. Plus, he has everyone covered and the board is scary enough that people can easily fear a slowplayed straight or something when he shoves.

OP, it's a home game. Call and make that donkey buy you a pizza if he has you beat, especially if it's a rebuy tourney.

And we should have led the river for at least 1/2 the pot. If he shoves over our river lead, then I can buy folding.

[Gallo]

This hand occured during a weekly Thursday night home game. Buy-in is $25 and starting stack is 5,000. This week had 15 players. At this point in the tournament the blinds are at 100-200. I have about 7,000 in the small blind.

Preflop:
Two players limp in for 200, including the button. I call in the small blind with and the big blind checks. The pot is at 800.

Flop:

Not much going on here on this particular flop. I have a gutshot straight draw. I'm first to act and I check since I have three others behind to see what develops. Everyone checks around.

Turn:

I bet out 600. My thoughts at this point is that everyone showed weakness on the flop so I feel I can safely eliminate anyone having hit the Q. The board is now draw heavy and I make a bet hoping to get a better idea of where I stand. All three players call the 600 bet. Pot is now at 3200.

River:

A very safe card to fall here. No draws were completed with this card. At this point all I have is a pair of J's with a weak kicker. I check hoping for a cheap showdown. BB checks as does the third player. Here's where it gets interesting. The player on the button verbally moves all in instantly for about 14k. This player happened to be the chip leader at the time and had everyone else covered in the hand.

Several questions...

1. Does this look like a bluff to you?
2. If this is a rebuy tournament and still in the rebuy portion, how much do you let that affect your decision to call in this spot?
3. Is it better to make a bet on this river with my hand or to check as I did?
3. If you're the villian here what type of hands would you make an all in bet on this board, if any?

I appreciate any feedback and responses. I'll give you the results after some discussion.

1. Yes
2. If it's a rebuy, I call.
3. I've been in this spot before, where I check and hope it gets checked around and then to my surprise someone makes this wacky all in move and I'm like "WTF?!? What could you possible have caught on the river?"
4. I don't make this kind of bet if I have the nuts, I'd rather make a value bet, but this is a live tourney and that's what makes playing live tournies so much fun and profitable.

And tbh, unless I have him totally dominated in chip stacks, I probably don't call even though I do think he's bluffing his pants off. The thing with someone like this is that eventually they will give away all their chips, hopefully to you.

[Thriceknurd]

1. Yes
2. If it's a rebuy, I call.
3. I've been in this spot before, where I check and hope it gets checked around and then to my surprise someone makes this wacky all in move and I'm like "WTF?!? What could you possible have caught on the river?"
4. I don't make this kind of bet if I have the nuts, I'd rather make a value bet, but this is a live tourney and that's what makes playing live tournies so much fun and profitable.

And tbh, unless I have him totally dominated in chip stacks, I probably don't call even though I do think he's bluffing his pants off. The thing with someone like this is that eventually they will give away all their chips, hopefully to you.

This.

The bet on the river screamed BLUFF. First and foremost it was an overbet. I feel a good hand would definately make a value bet, since the other players in the hand showed so much weakness. The fact that it was a position all in bet made the possibility of a bluff all the more likely. Lastly, the river was a very safe care and villian who made the bet had no hesitation to go all in. Villian made the bet so fast I feel that with any type of made hand, villian would have taken some time to make the correct bet, even an all in bet.

Having said all of that, I still folded. My initial thought was to call but my hands could not physically put my stack of chips in! It was really weird. I kept thinking to myself "It's a bluff this doesn't make sense it's a bluff I know I should call." What's interesting about this hand is that it was the last hand before the 1st break as well as the rebuy period. The fact that we were still in the rebuy period should have made it easier for me to go with my instinct and make the call. If I'm wrong then I could have reloaded. The other two players in the hand also folded. Villian took down the pot.

Villian showed K2 suited diamonds for a busted straight draw...

Another mistake was not making a blocker bet on the river. This tough spot would have been avoided if I made a bet when the safe card fell on the river. No way villian goes over the top with K2 there. Thought this hand would be interesting to discuss in the forum. It was interesting to see the first few responses felt that the bet was with the nuts or a made hand. Gallo was spot on without seeing the results. Good times.

[outsider13]

This.

The bet on the river screamed BLUFF. First and foremost it was an overbet. I feel a good hand would definately make a value bet, since the other players in the hand showed so much weakness. The fact that it was a position all in bet made the possibility of a bluff all the more likely. Lastly, the river was a very safe care and villian who made the bet had no hesitation to go all in. Villian made the bet so fast I feel that with any type of made hand, villian would have taken some time to make the correct bet, even an all in bet.

Having said all of that, I still folded. My initial thought was to call but my hands could not physically put my stack of chips in! It was really weird. I kept thinking to myself "It's a bluff this doesn't make sense it's a bluff I know I should call." What's interesting about this hand is that it was the last hand before the 1st break as well as the rebuy period. The fact that we were still in the rebuy period should have made it easier for me to go with my instinct and make the call. If I'm wrong then I could have reloaded. The other two players in the hand also folded. Villian took down the pot.

Villian showed K2 suited diamonds for a busted straight draw...

Another mistake was not making a blocker bet on the river. This tough spot would have been avoided if I made a bet when the safe card fell on the river. No way villian goes over the top with K2 there. Thought this hand would be interesting to discuss in the forum. It was interesting to see the first few responses felt that the bet was with the nuts or a made hand. Gallo was spot on without seeing the results. Good times.

So you basically waited for somebody to agree with you?

Fwiw, I do this purposely to get guys thinking it's a bluff. If it's a good thinking player, be cautious. If it's a horrible player that can only think on one level, call i guess. You're still beat by a ton of hands here and it's a pretty horrible call imo.

[Thriceknurd]

So you basically waited for somebody to agree with you?

Seriously? If you read my original post I didn't give away my ACTUAL decision for anyone to even agree with in the first place... No.... I waited for different responses before I gave the results of the hand and the decision I made.

Fwiw, I do this purposely to get guys thinking it's a bluff. If it's a good thinking player, be cautious. If it's a horrible player that can only think on one level, call i guess. You're still beat by a ton of hands here and it's a pretty horrible call imo.

So what you're saying is you'll make a horrible overbet bet on the river with a made hand and hope for someone to make a horrible call? Doesn't make sense to me... The right play would be to make a small value bet with a made hand in spots where you sense weakness and want to extract more chips.

Based on the responses the majority of players said they would fold in this spot. This is why an all in bluff is the best bet here. You will take the pot 9 out of 10 times. Villian made a good bet, and I went against my instinct and still ended up folding.

[wildspoke]

This hand occured during a weekly Thursday night home game. Buy-in is $25 and starting stack is 5,000. This week had 15 players. At this point in the tournament the blinds are at 100-200. I have about 7,000 in the small blind.

Preflop:
Two players limp in for 200, including the button. I call in the small blind with and the big blind checks. The pot is at 800.

Flop:

Not much going on here on this particular flop. I have a gutshot straight draw. I'm first to act and I check since I have three others behind to see what develops. Everyone checks around.

Turn:

I bet out 600. My thoughts at this point is that everyone showed weakness on the flop so I feel I can safely eliminate anyone having hit the Q. The board is now draw heavy and I make a bet hoping to get a better idea of where I stand. All three players call the 600 bet. Pot is now at 3200.

River:

A very safe card to fall here. No draws were completed with this card. At this point all I have is a pair of J's with a weak kicker. I check hoping for a cheap showdown. BB checks as does the third player. Here's where it gets interesting. The player on the button verbally moves all in instantly for about 14k. This player happened to be the chip leader at the time and had everyone else covered in the hand.

Several questions...

1. Does this look like a bluff to you?
Even if it's a bluff you have one pair. Fold.
2. If this is a rebuy tournament and still in the rebuy portion, how much do you let that affect your decision to call in this spot?
Fold.
3. Is it better to make a bet on this river with my hand or to check as I did?
Check. Fold.
3. If you're the villain here what type of hands would you make an all in bet on this board, if any?
ONLY if I had a monster. I'm the chip leader. I want to hold on to my children as long as possible.

I appreciate any feedback and responses. I'll give you the results after some discussion.

[RISEorFall]

a river blocker bet doesnt accomplish much, i dont think. you dont get called by worse hands often and i doubt better hands folds too often either. if you think you have the best hand check and let someone bluff.

i doubt he has a Q, as he wouldve bet the flop
or a straight, hed raise the turn to pump the pot
i seriously seriously doubt he shows 33

two pairs the only hand that makes sense. would he push with that?

in your position in a rebuy, I'd call, especially if you think he's bluffing. 5k doesnt play much better than 6.5k, and you have a chance to get a big stack. unless you really dont wanna rebuy again, theres a ton of upside and not much downside.

[outsider13]

Seriously? If you read my original post I didn't give away my ACTUAL decision for anyone to even agree with in the first place... No.... I waited for different responses before I gave the results of the hand and the decision I made.



So what you're saying is you'll make a horrible overbet bet on the river with a made hand and hope for someone to make a horrible call? Doesn't make sense to me... The right play would be to make a small value bet with a made hand in spots where you sense weakness and want to extract more chips.

Based on the responses the majority of players said they would fold in this spot. This is why an all in bluff is the best bet here. You will take the pot 9 out of 10 times. Villian made a good bet, and I went against my instinct and still ended up folding.

That's precisely what I'd do. Don't get me wrong, in spots where I want value, I'm definitely going to try and get value. But on ridiculously dry board where I have a hand where my opponent would have a hard time putting me on my hand, why not? Obviously you'd call a ridiculous overbet because it looks ridiculous.

I've made these calls before to only think....I was just owned. Ridiculous overbets will get called far more than you think (obv stake specific). Value bets are obv the "right" thing to do. Tell me this, if he value bet that river, would you call?

And I would like to correct my earlier statement- its not a horrible call. Its just a risky call where you can easily find yourself beat here.

[Gallo]

This in response to those saying that this would be a bad call because OP only has 1 pair. The thing is that in a live tourney, players are HUGE donks who only know poker from ESPN. They think the all in move is the best bet ever and that poker is all about bluffing. They don't realize that poker is about making the most value out of your made hands and losing as little as possible. This is the reason why I would lean towards a call, these are live tourney donks who really suck and do not understand the game.

OP said this was during the rebuy period, so I am definitely making the call.