Kuge 0 Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 13 left in a 4.40 and I am in 4th place. Villian pushed the previous hand sort of has a short stack.PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $4.00+$0.40 Tournament, 500/1000 Blinds 100 Ante (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comCO (t36506)Button (t10135)Hero (SB) (t21724)BB (t13890)UTG (t10591)MP (t10993)Hero's M: 10.34Preflop: Hero is SB with 8, 81 fold, MP raises to t10893 (All-In), 2 folds, Hero raises to t21624 (All-In), 1 foldGood here to isolate or fold here? Link to post Share on other sites
Mercury69 3 Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 I sure don't mind either play, but you are either flipping or dominated here and I'd hate to lose half my chips heading into an FT run...I think I'd fold. Link to post Share on other sites
Gallo 1 Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 I sure don't mind either play, but you are either flipping or dominated here and I'd hate to lose half my chips heading into an FT run...I think I'd fold.Really?I'm snap shoving here. You are usually ahead of what villain is shoving. The blinds are already at 500/1000, you can't wait for better and neither can villain, which is why you are usually ahead in a situation like this. You HAVE to call in these types of situations. And you have to be able to take a flip if you want a chance at winning. Link to post Share on other sites
SlackerInc 0 Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 As a generic situation, in a vacuum, I like the play. If you had a read (or stats) on villain that s/he is super tight, you could fold.ETA: I don't think you're either flipping or dominated here. Smaller pocket pairs are definitely part of a lot of players' ranges in this situation (M of 5 or so, shorthanded table, hijack seat, on the outside looking in in terms of making the final table), as are hands like Ax suited, maybe even suited connectors like 98s and 87s that you have dominated. Link to post Share on other sites
Gallo 1 Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 As a generic situation, in a vacuum, I like the play. If you had a read (or stats) on villain that s/he is super tight, you could fold.I still wouldn't. Link to post Share on other sites
donk4life 34 Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 I sure don't mind either play, but you are either flipping or dominated here and I'd hate to lose half my chips heading into an FT run...I think I'd fold.You're a favorite here far more often than you'd think against MP. His shoving range is extremely wide with blinds at 5/1k. Link to post Share on other sites
SlackerInc 0 Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 I still wouldn't.Against a player who is running like 9/6 VP$IP/PFR (and they are out there, oftentimes about 10% of the players I run into), the range for a shove here is like TT+ and maybe AK. But definitely, as you can see from my post and even more from my edit, I agree that this is an easy iso shove against most players. Link to post Share on other sites
Gallo 1 Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 Against a player who is running like 9/6 VP$IP/PFR (and they are out there, oftentimes about 10% of the players I run into), the range for a shove here is like TT+ and maybe AK. But definitely, as you can see from my post and even more from my edit, I agree that this is an easy iso shove against most players.I don't use PokerTracker or other program, but even if I had a read that the player was supertight, I would still call. He should be shoving soooo wide here with the blinds and antes at the current state. Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Sparco 2 Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 Should we take into account the fact that villain shoved the previous hand? Personally, I rarely shove two hands in a row without the second being a good one. (Which may very well be a leak in my game to carefully observing opponents...) Even given that fact, I think there are still enough high-card combinations and lower pairs in the mix to justify re-shove - it's just one of those hands where you have to face the fact that villain will have you dominated or will win the race some percentage of the time. Link to post Share on other sites
DonkSlayer 1 Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 Pretty read-based; i know villain just shoved and may be tilt-shoving but lots of overcard combos flip with us. If villain was a light shover in general I call, otherwise I like another spot better with lots of short stacks at the table and lots of blinds to steal. Link to post Share on other sites
SlackerInc 0 Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 I don't use PokerTracker or other program, but even if I had a read that the player was supertight, I would still call. He should be shoving soooo wide here with the blinds and antes at the current state.I agree that he should be--and I certainly would be--but the kinds of rocks I'm talking about don't. It's a weakness in their game, and part of the weakness is that people who are using tracking software can get out of their way when they do play. (Most of the weakness, though, is simply that they are letting themselves get blinded out.) Link to post Share on other sites
BeaverStyle 1 Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 Honestly, my first inclination was easy call. If you call and lose, you've got 11 bb's, and have a good stack to position shove 1-2 times the next orbit hoping to pick up the blinds. If you call and win, you have 33ish, and can abuse the bubble with abandon.Also, the shover's M is just over 5, and should be pushing a pretty wide range. Based on that and the potential big stack, I call here. I mean I shove over the top. Link to post Share on other sites
MovingIn 0 Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 We're probably heads up with villain, and at best we see a lot of lesser offsuit broadway stuff, weak aces and weaker pairs along with the usual premium stuff from villain's shove here... if not a wider range given his short stackedness. This may even be a kamikaze steal attempt. Remember, villain's short, we're in the money, and even given he shoved last hand, he's probably either looking to collect blinds and sneak into a bigger stack, or shove anything semi-reasonable on any hand he can and try to get a lucky double up.The blinds are a bit short for everyone so I'm not as fond of my bigger stack as I'd be if my stack were, say, 30-40BB. I'd get it in here and be happy with what happens a sizable majority of the time.Also, it is just me or are we seeing a lot of 88 hands posted lately? Link to post Share on other sites
Gallo 1 Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 We're probably heads up with villain, and at best we see a lot of lesser offsuit broadway stuff, weak aces and weaker pairs along with the usual premium stuff from villain's shove here... if not a wider range given his short stackedness. This may even be a kamikaze steal attempt.The blinds are a bit short for everyone so I'm not as fond of my bigger stack as I'd be if my stack were, say, 30-40BB. I'd get it in here and be happy with what happens a sizable majority of the time.Also, it is just me or are we seeing a lot of 88 hands posted lately?Probably because 88 is so middle of the road that people really don't feel comfortable calling/shoving them when put to a decision late in a tourney.This just happened as well. Villain just lost a nive pot when a shortie shoved QQs and he had JJ. As far as I know he had been fairly tight. But because of that recent hit, I knew he was looking to get back in it, so figured at best we'd be racing or hopefully we had him dominated. Anyway, I put him on a semi-wide range, not too wide, but wide enough for me to play my hand as I did. This a 45 man SNG.Full Tilt Poker Game #10274437253: $10 + $1 Sit & Go (77804466), Table 4 - 60/120 - No Limit Hold'em - 0:01:38 ET - 2009/01/27Seat 1: Yroc_T (2,565)Seat 2: sosa87 (2,770)Seat 3: zarathustrated (6,800)Seat 4: therevgs (2,345)Seat 5: can troy (1,520)Seat 6: FnLDestiny (650)Seat 7: direwolf914 (3,755)Seat 9: GalloFX (3,530)GalloFX posts the small blind of 60Yroc_T posts the big blind of 120The button is in seat #8*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to GalloFX [8s 8h]sosa87: later buddysosa87 foldszarathustrated foldstherevgs foldsFnLDestiny: wp donkcan troy raises to 420FnLDestiny foldsdirewolf914 has 15 seconds left to actdirewolf914 foldsGalloFX raises to 3,530, and is all inYroc_T foldscan troy calls 1,100, and is all inGalloFX shows [8s 8h]can troy shows [As Td]Uncalled bet of 2,010 returned to GalloFX*** FLOP *** [5d 4d 9d]*** TURN *** [5d 4d 9d] [Qc]*** RIVER *** [5d 4d 9d Qc] [Kh]GalloFX shows a pair of Eightscan troy shows Ace King highGalloFX wins the pot (3,160) with a pair of Eightscan troy stands up*** SUMMARY ***Total pot 3,160 | Rake 0Board: [5d 4d 9d Qc Kh]Seat 1: Yroc_T (big blind) folded before the FlopSeat 2: sosa87 didn't bet (folded)Seat 3: zarathustrated didn't bet (folded)Seat 4: therevgs didn't bet (folded)Seat 5: can troy showed [As Td] and lost with Ace King highSeat 6: FnLDestiny didn't bet (folded)Seat 7: direwolf914 didn't bet (folded)Seat 9: GalloFX (small blind) showed [8s 8h] and won (3,160) with a pair of Eights Link to post Share on other sites
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