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#41 Balloon guy

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Posted 26 January 2009 - 02:54 PM

View PostMercury69, on Monday, January 26th, 2009, 11:18 AM, said:

WHO AM I?
that wouldn't be Clinton would it?Oh wait you said he knew his father, so it can't be either of the last two democrat presidents
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#42 Balloon guy

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Posted 26 January 2009 - 02:58 PM

View PostAvaron, on Monday, January 26th, 2009, 2:35 PM, said:

your really believe that? everyone does. selling hightech devises everywhere around the world. of course, they can be used for bad things, like almost everything.
I will agree with you here.

Quote

ok, we stop trading on the "free world market" as soon as you stop to support guys like bin laden and saddam who will turn into problems in the future. deal?
Okay, the bar is once the US knows the future, then germany will stop selling WMD plants to terrorist states. Okay, at least we know where we all stand.

Quote

definition please. as far as i know, there are no officiall "terrorist states" existing.
THEY ARE WHO WE SAY THEY ARE!

Quote

hmmm, i always thought that of Mercedes Benz... Posted Image
Really? Mercedes are sweet. I can't believe any German would think otherwise. I will admit that in the last decade BMWs have also become pretty sweet, but before that the only thing cool about them was their history of making good airplanes
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#43 ahosang

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Posted 26 January 2009 - 03:01 PM

View PostAvaron, on Monday, January 26th, 2009, 10:35 PM, said:

your really believe that? everyone does. selling hightech devises everywhere around the world. of course, they can be used for bad things, like almost everything.ok, we stop trading on the "free world market" as soon as you stop to support guys like bin laden and saddam who will turn into problems in the future. deal?definition please. as far as i know, there are no officiall "terrorist states" existing.hmmm, i always thought that of Mercedes Benz... Posted Image
Of course, since you are from Bavaria!
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#44 Nimue1995

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Posted 26 January 2009 - 04:44 PM

And I always thought that BMW's were for soccer moms. Show's what I know :club:. But I've never ridden in or driven either one. I was a 4-H mom so we had to have an SUV that could carry a goat in the back to the vet.
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#45 Nashtak

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Posted 27 January 2009 - 10:13 PM

View PostBalloon guy, on Saturday, January 24th, 2009, 8:44 AM, said:

But he took the fight to the terrorist, and that is something most of America wanted. Just because the democrats started running for the 04 and 08 elections by trashing the war, doesn't mean that at the core, we all wanted to take the fight to the middle east and not have it in the streets of the western world. Who wouldn't rather have Osama with an AK47 facing an armed Marine in Iraq than Osama with a car bomb in Chicago?
This made me ''WoW'' big time.
QUOTE (Tactical Bear @ Monday, December 27th, 2010, 4:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If I had a nickel for every time I've had this exact same problem I would have zero nickels because I'm not a faggot.

#46 Potomophobia

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 03:46 AM

Another wonderful BG quote:"Luckily the troops maintained a record breaking moral level that prevented a vietnam like losing of the war at home from permeating the misson that they conducted with great results."First:It is spelled "morale" not moral. If you had ever been a true leader at any time in your life you would know and respect the difference. You never have been and never will be a leader of men.Second:Oh crap..... there is so much more. Just read the small part of your ignorant post I quoted. permeating?misson?great results?vietnam?And the kicker.......... THEY.I was one of the "THEY" that you refer to.Please, just STFU about anything relating to the military. Everything you say insults me and every other man and woman who actually picked up a weapon, or gave their lives to this country.You got rich in America. No problem. That's what we all fought, and are still fighting for.But hey, keep smoking the cigars, driving yer Jag and golfing at the finest clubs. And don't forget to brag and boast to everyone within earshot about how much you have and how much those around you don't.I mean really........ after all we are just paupers..............right?
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#47 Loismustdie

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 03:51 AM

View PostPotomophobia, on Friday, January 30th, 2009, 4:46 AM, said:

Another wonderful BG quote:"Luckily the troops maintained a record breaking moral level that prevented a vietnam like losing of the war at home from permeating the misson that they conducted with great results."First:It is spelled "morale" not moral. If you had ever been a true leader at any time in your life you would know and respect the difference. You never have been and never will be a leader of men.Second:Oh crap..... there is so much more. Just read the small part of your ignorant post I quoted. permeating?misson?great results?vietnam?And the kicker.......... THEY.I was one of the "THEY" that you refer to.Please, just STFU about anything relating to the military. Everything you say insults me and every other man and woman who actually picked up a weapon, or gave their lives to this country.You got rich in America. No problem. That's what we all fought, and are still fighting for.But hey, keep smoking the cigars, driving yer Jag and golfing at the finest clubs. And don't forget to brag and boast to everyone within earshot about how much you have and how much those around you don't.I mean really........ after all we are just paupers..............right?
Seriously, you should meet him. Really nice guy. You're hard on for him just makes you look bad.
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#48 Potomophobia

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 04:23 AM

View PostLoismustdie, on Friday, January 30th, 2009, 6:51 AM, said:

Seriously, you should meet him. Really nice guy. You're hard on for him just makes you look bad.
Let's see....... a "guy?" whose screen name is Loismustdie is semiliterate (learn the difference between your and you're)has an "avatar" of a vapid male modeltells me I look bad.Gee...... I may lose some sleep over this one.
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#49 Loismustdie

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 04:41 AM

View PostPotomophobia, on Friday, January 30th, 2009, 5:23 AM, said:

Let's see....... a "guy?" whose screen name is Loismustdie is semiliterate (learn the difference between your and you're)has an "avatar" of a vapid male modeltells me I look bad.Gee...... I may lose some sleep over this one.
No, you're right. You're golden, and don't look douchy at all. My bad, carry on.
So much for a comeback.

#50 Sal Paradise

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 05:01 AM

View PostPotomophobia, on Friday, January 30th, 2009, 7:23 AM, said:

Let's see....... a "guy?" whose screen name is Loismustdie is semiliterate (learn the difference between your and you're)has an "avatar" of a vapid male modeltells me I look bad.Gee...... I may lose some sleep over this one.
you're contributions to this forum are invaluable.
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#51 hblask

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 06:16 AM

Can we ban this guy? He's just in here trolling all week and making civil discussions uncivil.
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#52 Balloon guy

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 06:53 AM

View Posthblask, on Friday, January 30th, 2009, 6:16 AM, said:

Can we ban this guy? He's just in here trolling all week and making civil discussions uncivil.
I don't know why I bring out so much hate in people.I'm a lover not a fighterOh and I'm rich
I use my cigar smoke as idiot repellent

Most bad government has come out of too much government. Thomas Jefferson

#53 CaneBrain

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 08:42 AM

View PostBalloon guy, on Friday, January 30th, 2009, 6:53 AM, said:

Oh and I'm rich
if it makes you feel better, you are just middle of the road in my book.
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#54 Balloon guy

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 10:02 AM

View PostCaneBrain, on Friday, January 30th, 2009, 8:42 AM, said:

if it makes you feel better, you are just middle of the road in my book.
pfffttttI am middle of the road at best in my book too.
I use my cigar smoke as idiot repellent

Most bad government has come out of too much government. Thomas Jefferson

#55 TheCinciKid

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 02:42 PM

I've only read one page of this thread, so if this has been addressed already, I apologize. I highly doubt that it has been addressed though. First, I want to establish my credentials. When 9/11, then subsequently the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq happened, I was a Political Science major in college. I thought I knew everything there was to know about International relations, the Middle East and the situation at hand. I believed that we were clearly justified to go into Afghanistan and not the least bit justified in going into Iraq...much like President Obama seems to believe today. Sadly, my education on the situation and the region was actually somewhat lacking. In 2008 I was commissioned a 2nd Lieutenant in the United States Air Force. Since my commissioning date, I've learned more about the history of the region than I did in my college Poli Sci classes. What I didn't know at the time, or didn't understand, and what I think most people don't know is what had been going on in Iraq between the time of Gulf War I and Operation Iraqi Freedom. During those 12 years, the U.S. Air Force was constantly flying sorties over Iraq enforcing no-fly zones that took up most of the country. Saddam's Air Force was restricted to operating in a somewhat narrow swath in the middle of the country. We did this to restrict his ability to torture and murder innocent Kurds in Northern Iraq and to keep him from attempting to expand again from Southern Iraq into Kuwait. Essentially, we were restricting Saddam's actions already. We had imposed economic sanctions on the country and we had attempting to chop off his ability to make war on his neighbors and the citizens in his own country. For over a decade we had been in a holding pattern. The President and Congress were presented with evidence that Saddam had nuclear weapons and they chose to act in what they saw as the best interests of the stability of a region that was very important to us. We made some mistakes in prosecuting the war (or more accurately in our estimation of what would happen after we toppled the regime and in the rebuilding effort). We can debate ad nauseum over whether or not it was the right thing to do. Honestly, I just don't know...I never saw all the evidence, got all the briefings and I thank God that I didn't have to make those decisions. Personally, I think we should have done more in Afghanistan and made a stronger effort to get Osama Bin Laden before we ever even considered going into Iraq. But, I doubt that taking out Osama would have ended Islamic terrorism anymore than toppling Saddam promoted stability in Iraq. When all is said and done, I respect Mr. Bush for having the courage of his convictions and doing what he thought was right no matter how unpopular it became. I think he made a lot of mistakes and I HATE the gigantic deficits that he and his "Republican" Congress have saddled us with, but I can't fault him for doing what he thought was right and I think that the war issue is so much more complex than any of us understand and none of us can know what we would have done in that position if we were presented with the same information that Mr. Bush was.
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#56 El Guapo

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 02:58 PM

View PostTheCinciKid, on Friday, January 30th, 2009, 2:42 PM, said:

I've only read one page of this thread, so if this has been addressed already, I apologize. I highly doubt that it has been addressed though. First, I want to establish my credentials. When 9/11, then subsequently the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq happened, I was a Political Science major in college. I thought I knew everything there was to know about International relations, the Middle East and the situation at hand. I believed that we were clearly justified to go into Afghanistan and not the least bit justified in going into Iraq...much like President Obama seems to believe today. Sadly, my education on the situation and the region was actually somewhat lacking. In 2008 I was commissioned a 2nd Lieutenant in the United States Air Force. Since my commissioning date, I've learned more about the history of the region than I did in my college Poli Sci classes. What I didn't know at the time, or didn't understand, and what I think most people don't know is what had been going on in Iraq between the time of Gulf War I and Operation Iraqi Freedom. During those 12 years, the U.S. Air Force was constantly flying sorties over Iraq enforcing no-fly zones that took up most of the country. Saddam's Air Force was restricted to operating in a somewhat narrow swath in the middle of the country. We did this to restrict his ability to torture and murder innocent Kurds in Northern Iraq and to keep him from attempting to expand again from Southern Iraq into Kuwait. Essentially, we were restricting Saddam's actions already. We had imposed economic sanctions on the country and we had attempting to chop off his ability to make war on his neighbors and the citizens in his own country. For over a decade we had been in a holding pattern. The President and Congress were presented with evidence that Saddam had nuclear weapons and they chose to act in what they saw as the best interests of the stability of a region that was very important to us. We made some mistakes in prosecuting the war (or more accurately in our estimation of what would happen after we toppled the regime and in the rebuilding effort). We can debate ad nauseum over whether or not it was the right thing to do. Honestly, I just don't know...I never saw all the evidence, got all the briefings and I thank God that I didn't have to make those decisions. Personally, I think we should have done more in Afghanistan and made a stronger effort to get Osama Bin Laden before we ever even considered going into Iraq. But, I doubt that taking out Osama would have ended Islamic terrorism anymore than toppling Saddam promoted stability in Iraq. When all is said and done, I respect Mr. Bush for having the courage of his convictions and doing what he thought was right no matter how unpopular it became. I think he made a lot of mistakes and I HATE the gigantic deficits that he and his "Republican" Congress have saddled us with, but I can't fault him for doing what he thought was right and I think that the war issue is so much more complex than any of us understand and none of us can know what we would have done in that position if we were presented with the same information that Mr. Bush was.
This is a fantastic post.

#57 irishguy

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Posted 31 January 2009 - 06:14 AM

View PostTheCinciKid, on Friday, January 30th, 2009, 2:42 PM, said:

Good Post
The problem to me is that within months of 9/11 every "war on terror" speech gradually shifted from Afghanistan to Iraq. This is clearly shown if you look at all the polls from right after 9/11 where most Americans felt as though Iraq had nothing to do with the attacks to the polls taken when we invaded Iraq where most Americans now believed Saddam/Iraq played a part in 9/11. I'm not commenting on whether you should've been there or not but the lies that got you there went far beyond documents of wmd's.
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#58 TheCinciKid

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Posted 31 January 2009 - 10:01 AM

View Postirishguy, on Saturday, January 31st, 2009, 8:14 AM, said:

The problem to me is that within months of 9/11 every "war on terror" speech gradually shifted from Afghanistan to Iraq. This is clearly shown if you look at all the polls from right after 9/11 where most Americans felt as though Iraq had nothing to do with the attacks to the polls taken when we invaded Iraq where most Americans now believed Saddam/Iraq played a part in 9/11. I'm not commenting on whether you should've been there or not but the lies that got you there went far beyond documents of wmd's.
It's been documented that within days of 9/11, Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz was recommending that we use this as an opportunity to go into Iraq. There's a big part of me that still think that we never should have done it, we should have focused on Osama and the Al Quaeda threat instead. But, all I was saying in the above post is that it's a lot more complicated than I realized at the time and I'm glad I didn't have to make the decisions that Mr. Bush and his advisers, and for that matter, many Democratic U.S. Senators, had to make.
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#59 irishguy

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Posted 31 January 2009 - 11:03 AM

View PostTheCinciKid, on Saturday, January 31st, 2009, 10:01 AM, said:

It's been documented that within days of 9/11, Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz was recommending that we use this as an opportunity to go into Iraq. There's a big part of me that still think that we never should have done it, we should have focused on Osama and the Al Quaeda threat instead. But, all I was saying in the above post is that it's a lot more complicated than I realized at the time and I'm glad I didn't have to make the decisions that Mr. Bush and his advisers, and for that matter, many Democratic U.S. Senators, had to make.
I agree with you, clearly it was a tough call to make. I think for some people it's not just that you went in to Iraq its the pretense that you went in under as well. I don't if the general public would've been behind it if all the facts were layed out but when the government lies the way they did it was only a matter of time before people clued in and started to turn.
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#60 Potomophobia

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Posted 31 January 2009 - 10:21 PM

View PostTheCinciKid, on Friday, January 30th, 2009, 5:42 PM, said:

What I didn't know at the time, or didn't understand, and what I think most people don't know is what had been going on in Iraq between the time of Gulf War I and Operation Iraqi Freedom. During those 12 years, the U.S. Air Force was constantly flying sorties over Iraq enforcing no-fly zones that took up most of the country. Saddam's Air Force was restricted to operating in a somewhat narrow swath in the middle of the country.Thank you for your dedication and service to our country.But don't believe everything the military tells you, or should I say, forgets to tell you.I was in Saudi during Desert Storm. And at the end, we sold out the Kurds when we allowed the Iraqis to continue to fly their helicopters. Poppa Bush encouraged the Kurds to revolt and then sold them out. Yes, the USAF flew their fighters, but the Iraqis had no more fighters. What they had was choppers. We put no restrictions on them. And those choppers killed thousands and thousands of Kurds while the jet jockeys flew at 25,000 feet looking for bogies that would never come.War is hell. People die and people lie.

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