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#21 hblask

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Posted 04 February 2009 - 07:10 AM

View Postdizzlerock, on Tuesday, February 3rd, 2009, 3:50 PM, said:

And these to things are unale to be regulated?
Are you yanking my chain? If so, you're doing a good job of it.They are already OVER-regulated. We don't need more regulation, we need less, so that competition can drive prices down.
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#22 hblask

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Posted 04 February 2009 - 07:18 AM

View PostLincolnK, on Tuesday, February 3rd, 2009, 10:22 PM, said:

The problem with today's healthcare industry is reliance on insurance for everyday service, rather than catastrophe. Insurance picks up the majority of the tab, and so people are not concerned with the actual cost of their service. This eliminates competition that normally drives improvement.
This is such an important point I wanted to highlight it again. If we could do one fix to the system in the US, it should be to reverse the tax consequences of buying healthcare, so that it is taxable for employers, non-taxable for individuals. Within 5 years, medical costs would actually drop -- not just reduce the rate of growth, but drop.Within 5 years, no doctor would accept medicare/medicaid payments, and that system would have to be restructured to the new economic reality, and that would send a second wave of innovation and cost cutting through the industry.Simple fix, and zero percent chance congress would ever do it, because they'd lose millions in campaign funds.
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#23 hblask

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Posted 04 February 2009 - 07:24 AM

The "pre-existing condition" problem is the toughest question of all. Think about it in terms of car insurance, and it helps focus on the correct issues.While it's not strictly free market, I would not have a problem with a law that says that once an insurance company takes on a client, they cannot drop them as long as the person wants to renew. What this does is encourage people to get insurance when they are young and healthy, and then keep it. If you wait to get insurance until after you are sick, too bad. Time to rely on the kindness of your fellow citizens (and it's there; I know from personal experience) and some state and local support programs.
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#24 Jeepster80125

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Posted 04 February 2009 - 08:03 AM

View Posthblask, on Wednesday, February 4th, 2009, 8:24 AM, said:

The "pre-existing condition" problem is the toughest question of all. Think about it in terms of car insurance, and it helps focus on the correct issues.While it's not strictly free market, I would not have a problem with a law that says that once an insurance company takes on a client, they cannot drop them as long as the person wants to renew. What this does is encourage people to get insurance when they are young and healthy, and then keep it. If you wait to get insurance until after you are sick, too bad. Time to rely on the kindness of your fellow citizens (and it's there; I know from personal experience) and some state and local support programs.
This already applies in Colorado, but the carrier can increase their premiums once a month or as often as they like to a point where it becomes impossible to afford.
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QUOTE (Spademan @ Friday, May 22nd, 2009, 4:24 PM)
We are both being judgmental, the only difference is my judgments are well reasoned, well presented and actually have something to do with reality whereas yours are inane assumption wrapped in a steaming pile of contradiction.

#25 dizzlerock

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Posted 04 February 2009 - 08:27 AM

View PostJeepster80125, on Wednesday, February 4th, 2009, 9:03 AM, said:

This already applies in Colorado, but the carrier can increase their premiums once a month or as often as they like to a point where it becomes impossible to afford.
With employer help or not its still almost impossible to afford.

#26 Jeepster80125

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Posted 04 February 2009 - 08:57 AM

View Postdizzlerock, on Wednesday, February 4th, 2009, 9:27 AM, said:

With employer help or not its still almost impossible to afford.
And that's what needs to be addressed. Cost.
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QUOTE (Spademan @ Friday, May 22nd, 2009, 4:24 PM)
We are both being judgmental, the only difference is my judgments are well reasoned, well presented and actually have something to do with reality whereas yours are inane assumption wrapped in a steaming pile of contradiction.

#27 CaneBrain

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Posted 04 February 2009 - 10:11 AM

View PostJeepster80125, on Wednesday, February 4th, 2009, 9:57 AM, said:

And that's what needs to be addressed. Cost.
this is like saying the thing that needs to be addressed about the Ebola virus is how it kills you so fast.
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#28 Jeepster80125

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Posted 04 February 2009 - 10:26 AM

View PostCaneBrain, on Wednesday, February 4th, 2009, 11:11 AM, said:

this is like saying the thing that needs to be addressed about the Ebola virus is how it kills you so fast.
Funny.I think people are mis-informed when they say they want socialized medicine, that it's the answer to all of our problems. That's not the answer, reducing costs is. Reducing malpractice liability, reducing hospital profits, reducing the 7-14% annual rise in health insurance premiums, reducing costs for new medicines and new technologies.Just because you're slightly more aware of how things work doesn't mean everyone else is. Have anything to add, or are you just being insulting?
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QUOTE (Spademan @ Friday, May 22nd, 2009, 4:24 PM)
We are both being judgmental, the only difference is my judgments are well reasoned, well presented and actually have something to do with reality whereas yours are inane assumption wrapped in a steaming pile of contradiction.

#29 El Guapo

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Posted 04 February 2009 - 10:29 AM

View PostJeepster80125, on Wednesday, February 4th, 2009, 10:26 AM, said:

Funny.I think people are mis-informed when they say they want socialized medicine, that it's the answer to all of our problems. That's not the answer, reducing costs is. Reducing malpractice liability, reducing hospital profits, reducing the 7-14% annual rise in health insurance premiums, reducing costs for new medicines and new technologies.Just because you're slightly more aware of how things work doesn't mean everyone else is. Have anything to add, or are you just being insulting?
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#30 CaneBrain

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Posted 04 February 2009 - 10:35 AM

View PostJeepster80125, on Wednesday, February 4th, 2009, 11:26 AM, said:

Funny.I think people are mis-informed when they say they want socialized medicine, that it's the answer to all of our problems. That's not the answer, reducing costs is. Reducing malpractice liability, reducing hospital profits, reducing the 7-14% annual rise in health insurance premiums, reducing costs for new medicines and new technologies.Just because you're slightly more aware of how things work doesn't mean everyone else is. Have anything to add, or are you just being insulting?
"serious face": Reducing costs is the key but my point with my jopke was that reducing costs will require a complete overhaul of everything related to health care (which some people think socialized medicine will accomplish). Some doctors make way too much which leaves a lot of doctors making not enough to justify what they go through to become a doctor. Health care companies throw gobs of money at candidates so they can get preferential laws later. The fact that drugs cost so much more here than they do basically anywhere else in the world doesnt help. I mean look at all the things you say need to be changed (have their costs reduced). That is basically everything!The current system is completely broken and that is why you see so many people championing socialized medicine. They think that everything needs to change. I dont think socialized medicine will make the problem better or worse. It would just be a different kind of suck.
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#31 CaneBrain

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Posted 04 February 2009 - 10:43 AM

View PostEl Guapo, on Wednesday, February 4th, 2009, 11:29 AM, said:

He's a dirty Jew Lawyer, don't listen to him.
I am a hygenic Jew who cannot find employment as a lawyer. You can still listen to me.
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#32 Loismustdie

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Posted 04 February 2009 - 10:45 AM

View PostCaneBrain, on Wednesday, February 4th, 2009, 11:35 AM, said:

"serious face": Reducing costs is the key but my point with my jopke was that reducing costs will require a complete overhaul of everything related to health care (which some people think socialized medicine will accomplish). Some doctors make way too much which leaves a lot of doctors making not enough to justify what they go through to become a doctor. Health care companies throw gobs of money at candidates so they can get preferential laws later. The fact that drugs cost so much more here than they do basically anywhere else in the world doesnt help. I mean look at all the things you say need to be changed (have their costs reduced). That is basically everything!The current system is completely broken and that is why you see so many people championing socialized medicine. They think that everything needs to change. I dont think socialized medicine will make the problem better or worse. It would just be a different kind of suck.
We need to seriously stop using the phrase "completely broken" unless you can think of another place in the world you would rather get into a car accident right now. Nowhere? Really? Big surprise.
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#33 El Guapo

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Posted 04 February 2009 - 10:46 AM

View PostCaneBrain, on Wednesday, February 4th, 2009, 10:43 AM, said:

I am a hygenic Jew who cannot find employment as a lawyer. You can still listen to me.
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#34 CaneBrain

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Posted 04 February 2009 - 10:51 AM

View PostLoismustdie, on Wednesday, February 4th, 2009, 10:45 AM, said:

We need to seriously stop using the phrase "completely broken" unless you can think of another place in the world you would rather get into a car accident right now. Nowhere? Really? Big surprise.
London. It would be interesting to crash on the left side of the road.And this argument is completely unpersuasive. If America gets a D- on the health care test and everyone else gets an F (not agreeing with these grades just a hypothetical), should I celebrate? Not to mention every independent ranking of the health care systems of countries disagrees with you. They all just hate America though.
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#35 vbnautilus

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Posted 04 February 2009 - 11:15 AM

View PostLoismustdie, on Wednesday, February 4th, 2009, 10:45 AM, said:

We need to seriously stop using the phrase "completely broken" unless you can think of another place in the world you would rather get into a car accident right now.
Definitely not Japan. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29013386/Injured man dies after rejection by 14 hospitalsTOKYO - A 69-year-old Japanese man injured in a traffic accident died after paramedics spent more than an hour negotiating with 14 hospitals before one admitted him, a fire department official said Wednesday.The man, whose bicycle collided with a motorcycle in the western city of Itami, waited at the scene in an ambulance because the hospitals said they could not accept him, citing a lack of specialists, equipment, beds and staff, according to Mitsuhisa Ikemoto. One of the 14 finally admitted the man when the paramedics called it for a second time.

#36 CaneBrain

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Posted 04 February 2009 - 11:18 AM

View Postvbnautilus, on Wednesday, February 4th, 2009, 12:15 PM, said:

Definitely not Japan. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29013386/Injured man dies after rejection by 14 hospitalsTOKYO - A 69-year-old Japanese man injured in a traffic accident died after paramedics spent more than an hour negotiating with 14 hospitals before one admitted him, a fire department official said Wednesday.The man, whose bicycle collided with a motorcycle in the western city of Itami, waited at the scene in an ambulance because the hospitals said they could not accept him, citing a lack of specialists, equipment, beds and staff, according to Mitsuhisa Ikemoto. One of the 14 finally admitted the man when the paramedics called it for a second time.
fair is fair. This makes me feel better about some things we do in America, health care wise. What a debacle. Remember when Japan was going to replace us as the next superpower?
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#37 El Guapo

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Posted 04 February 2009 - 11:23 AM

View PostCaneBrain, on Wednesday, February 4th, 2009, 11:18 AM, said:

fair is fair. This makes me feel better about some things we do in America, health care wise. What a debacle. Remember when Japan was going to replace us as the next superpower?
That was always tongue in cheek. Their average height is only 5' 7", i mean, cmon, really, a bunch of 5' 7" guys running the world.I DON'T THINK SO!

#38 CaneBrain

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Posted 04 February 2009 - 11:34 AM

View PostEl Guapo, on Wednesday, February 4th, 2009, 12:23 PM, said:

That was always tongue in cheek. Their average height is only 5' 7", i mean, cmon, really, a bunch of 5' 7" guys running the world.I DON'T THINK SO!
you might never see them coming!I read somewhere once that the majority of Navy Seals are relatively short for a variety of reasons. Anyone know if that is true?Japan is like our mirror. We are great at short term solutions and thinking about the here and now. Japan is great at thinking 50 years ahead but sometimes misses/ignores the problem right in front of them.
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#39 hblask

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Posted 04 February 2009 - 11:41 AM

This was the second story lately of someone dying in Japan from things that are routinely treated here. I wonder what the death toll needs to reach before people realize central planning doesn't work?
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#40 El Guapo

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Posted 04 February 2009 - 11:49 AM

View PostCaneBrain, on Wednesday, February 4th, 2009, 11:34 AM, said:

I read somewhere once that the majority of Navy Seals are relatively short for a variety of reasons. Anyone know if that is true?
Most military positions have a height and weight range. I think pilots can be a max 6'2" and that is rare.Seals have to fit in tight spots, they don't want a 6'5" 225lb yoked guy as an assassin.He would be carrying the SAW in the ARMY.




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