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The Official Obama Scorecard Thread


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#1 hblask

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 01:27 PM

Any time Obama does anything, add it here and we'll keep score so that selective memory isn't an issue a year or four from now.Suspend prosecution of Gitmo prisoners.Umm, isn't the problem that they are being held without trial? Wouldn't we want *faster* prosecution? Apparently this is to review unfair prosecutions, but does nothing to help all the others who have not been prosecuted after years and years. I would think a speedy trial would be better. At any rate, it shows Obama's concern that these people get fair trials and that the days of business as usual are over. I'll give him a win on this one.1-0-0Freeze salaries of high-paid officials.This is a tiny drop in a very big bucket, but it's a step in the right direction. It means more as a symbolic move than a practical one, but I like it. Another win.2-0-0New lobbying rules to limit the influence of political insidersIt's very convoluted, and anyone who has been in business knows that the line between the personal and the professional can get very blurry. It's a complex issue, but the gist of it is to help eliminate both impropriety along with the appearance of impropriety -- always a good thing.3-0-0Make the default of the Freedom of Information Act be open information and an assumption of openness, instead of the standard under Bush where you had to prove the information was harmless.This is huge if it really happens. I hope he follows through appropriately on this and makes it happen instead of just saying it and then letting it go back to the old way once the public forgets he said this.4-0-0Nice start, Mr. President.ps, there should be some way to weight the value/importance of the program. For example, if he gets another hundred minor ones right like these last three but then forces socialized medicine down our throat, he'd be 100-1-0, but it would still be a terrible record.
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#2 CaneBrain

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 02:27 PM

View Posthblask, on Wednesday, January 21st, 2009, 1:27 PM, said:

Any time Obama does anything, add it here and we'll keep score so that selective memory isn't an issue a year or four from now.Suspend prosecution of Gitmo prisoners.Umm, isn't the problem that they are being held without trial? Wouldn't we want *faster* prosecution? Apparently this is to review unfair prosecutions, but does nothing to help all the others who have not been prosecuted after years and years. I would think a speedy trial would be better. At any rate, it shows Obama's concern that these people get fair trials and that the days of business as usual are over. I'll give him a win on this one.1-0-0Freeze salaries of high-paid officials.This is a tiny drop in a very big bucket, but it's a step in the right direction. It means more as a symbolic move than a practical one, but I like it. Another win.2-0-0New lobbying rules to limit the influence of political insidersIt's very convoluted, and anyone who has been in business knows that the line between the personal and the professional can get very blurry. It's a complex issue, but the gist of it is to help eliminate both impropriety along with the appearance of impropriety -- always a good thing.3-0-0Make the default of the Freedom of Information Act be open information and an assumption of openness, instead of the standard under Bush where you had to prove the information was harmless.This is huge if it really happens. I hope he follows through appropriately on this and makes it happen instead of just saying it and then letting it go back to the old way once the public forgets he said this.4-0-0Nice start, Mr. President.ps, there should be some way to weight the value/importance of the program. For example, if he gets another hundred minor ones right like these last three but then forces socialized medicine down our throat, he'd be 100-1-0, but it would still be a terrible record.
If socialized medicine is negative 100 then #1 above should be worth at least +5. And the reason to delay the Gitmo trials is because they want to release some of these people but they dont know where to send them. Most of their home countries dont want them. It is a sticky situation for sure and needs to be handled delicately.I am sure the code pink crowd will be unreasonably upset that Obama cant wave Bush's magic wand and end Guantanamo in an instant.I think Obama has done well with just about everything since the election. Except some of his more minor appointments (the Richardson thing was an annoyance as was the tax stuff with Geither) it has been a very smooth middle of the road start. Putting Clinton as Sec of State was a great move.Nice to see the DOW move back above 8000 (right where I predicted it would be after Obama took office....go me).
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#3 hblask

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 02:46 PM

[quote name='CaneBrain' date='Wednesday, January 21st, 2009, 4:27 PM' post='2986450'If socialized medicine is negative 100 then #1 above should be worth at least +5. And the reason to delay the Gitmo trials is because they want to release some of these people but they dont know where to send them. Most of their home countries dont want them. It is a sticky situation for sure and needs to be handled delicately.[/quote]Yeah, I'd agree, #1 is bigger than the 2&3, with the FOIA one somewhere between them.I have a feeling much of Obama's first year will be spent trying to walk the delicate line of cleaning up the mess Bush made, where "inoffensive compromise" is the best we can hope for in many cases.And there is one thing Obama could do that would outweigh all other things -- private SS accounts with the right to opt out of the current SS system. That doesn't appear to be anywhere on his radar, so I'm not holding my breath, but maybe he'll get a couple good economists to explain that the current system is about to bankrupt the country in our lifetime, and Obama will use his political clout to get reform through. If he does that, I will immediately rank him as one of the top presidents.Realistically, I'd settle for getting out of Iraq and not raising taxes on anyone.
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#4 saralogy

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 02:47 PM

I agree... I think Obama has done very well. And for your sake I hope he will implement social healthcare. I really don't understand why so many people in the States are against social healthcare. Most countries in Europe have it and it works very well for most of them. Michael Moore is not lying about the Europeans healthcare when he adresses the subject in "Sicko"I am born in Germany and live in Denmark since 1996. Both countries have social healthcare. I will gladly answer questions if anyone is interested getting information on the subject.
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#5 The_Grim_Reaper

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 03:01 PM

View Postsaralogy, on Wednesday, January 21st, 2009, 2:47 PM, said:

I really don't understand why so many people in the States are against social healthcare.
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#6 AmScray

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 04:32 PM

View Postsaralogy, on Wednesday, January 21st, 2009, 2:47 PM, said:

I agree... I think Obama has done very well. And for your sake I hope he will implement social healthcare. I really don't understand why so many people in the States are against social healthcare. Most countries in Europe have it and it works very well for most of them. Michael Moore is not lying about the Europeans healthcare when he adresses the subject in "Sicko"I am born in Germany and live in Denmark since 1996. Both countries have social healthcare. I will gladly answer questions if anyone is interested getting information on the subject.
We have a different social philosophy than Europe. Europe is a more mature civilization, albeit with a completely different history. In the "EUROPE HAS (X), SO WHY NOT AMERICA!" debate, there's always a deeply rooted, willful ignorance to our wildly different histories. Even though our society is derived from European peoples, we are a totally different civilization with unique considerations that don't apply in Germany or Demnark, but do apply here in a big way. Just because something works in a country like Denmark (which would fit into one of our 50 US states) doesn't mean its the right decision for a melting pot like ours with an almost unique social, governmential and economic framework. With that said, it will come... An unfortuate aspect of white people- wherever they occur- is that they eventually liberalize their societies to the point that everything reverts to the mean, usually based on some misguided sense of "fairness".
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#7 Merby

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 04:37 PM

View PostCaneBrain, on Wednesday, January 21st, 2009, 2:27 PM, said:

If socialized medicine is negative 100 then #1 above should be worth at least +5.
This implication is TRUE......because "socialized medicine" = "negative 100" is FALSE.
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#8 phlegm

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 05:02 PM

View Postsaralogy, on Wednesday, January 21st, 2009, 2:47 PM, said:

I agree... I think Obama has done very well. And for your sake I hope he will implement social healthcare. I really don't understand why so many people in the States are against social healthcare. Most countries in Europe have it and it works very well for most of them. Michael Moore is not lying about the Europeans healthcare when he adresses the subject in "Sicko"I am born in Germany and live in Denmark since 1996. Both countries have social healthcare. I will gladly answer questions if anyone is interested getting information on the subject.
Peter Eastgate might disagree about the utopian denmark society.
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#9 CaneBrain

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 07:34 PM

View PostMerby, on Wednesday, January 21st, 2009, 4:37 PM, said:

This implication is TRUE......because "socialized medicine" = "negative 100" is FALSE.
I dont think we are ready to do socialized medicine properly.....yet.until then, lets focus on more pressing problems. usually we dont have problems bigger than health care but right now we have several.
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#10 Jeepster80125

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 09:56 PM

View Postsaralogy, on Wednesday, January 21st, 2009, 3:47 PM, said:

I agree... I think Obama has done very well. And for your sake I hope he will implement social healthcare. I really don't understand why so many people in the States are against social healthcare. Most countries in Europe have it and it works very well for most of them. Michael Moore is not lying about the Europeans healthcare when he adresses the subject in "Sicko"I am born in Germany and live in Denmark since 1996. Both countries have social healthcare. I will gladly answer questions if anyone is interested getting information on the subject.
I would be willing to bet money that you're healthy and have never had any major health issues. If I'm wrong, then I'd be willing to bet you don't really have a clue about how socialized medicine would have to be implemented in our country. I'm not talking smack here, but I work in the healthcare industry and I can tell you without a doubt that socialized medicine is not the answer to cure our problems.

View PostMerby, on Wednesday, January 21st, 2009, 5:37 PM, said:

This implication is TRUE......because "socialized medicine" = "negative 100" is FALSE.
I'd like you to post why you think socialized medicine is the answer for the healthcare system in the US. I guess that's what I get from your post, that you disagree with the notion that socialized medicine is a bad thing for us.Feel free to explain yourself or post why you think socialized medicine is the answer. I'm very curious.

View PostCaneBrain, on Wednesday, January 21st, 2009, 8:34 PM, said:

I dont think we are ready to do socialized medicine properly.....yet.until then, lets focus on more pressing problems. usually we dont have problems bigger than health care but right now we have several.
We won't have true 'socialized medicine' anywhere in the near future. The many, many problems that exist with our current healthcare system won't be solved with socialized medicine. I've said it before, but I don't really think Americans want the government handling a program that would consume 1/7th of our economy, no matter how much they want everything for free."If you think healthcare is expensive now, just wait until it's free."EDIT: I don't think the OP wants this thread to devolve into a healthcare debate. I think you three should feel free to post in the healthcare thread, in this 'Daniels Blog' forum. Just a thought.

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#11 hblask

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Posted 22 January 2009 - 06:07 AM

View PostJeepster80125, on Wednesday, January 21st, 2009, 11:56 PM, said:

EDIT: I don't think the OP wants this thread to devolve into a healthcare debate. I think you three should feel free to post in the healthcare thread, in this 'Daniels Blog' forum. Just a thought.
That's exactly why I'm resisting getting into this. This discussion should go here:http://www.fullconta...howtopic=129291That way we don't have to start from scratch again. Of course, if Obama actually pushes something through, then it can go here.
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#12 vbnautilus

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Posted 22 January 2009 - 08:14 AM

View Posthblask, on Wednesday, January 21st, 2009, 1:27 PM, said:

Make the default of the Freedom of Information Act be open information and an assumption of openness, instead of the standard under Bush where you had to prove the information was harmless.This is huge if it really happens. I hope he follows through appropriately on this and makes it happen instead of just saying it and then letting it go back to the old way once the public forgets he said this.
He signed an executive order which “ends the practice of having others besides the president assert executive privilege for records after an administration ends".http://www.whitehous...dentialRecords/They are listing all executive orders here, although I've heard they were having some technical difficulties in updating the site: http://www.whitehous...ecutive_orders/

#13 hblask

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Posted 22 January 2009 - 08:19 AM

View Postvbnautilus, on Thursday, January 22nd, 2009, 10:14 AM, said:

He signed an executive order which "ends the practice of having others besides the president assert executive privilege for records after an administration ends"
+1 Obama
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#14 hblask

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Posted 22 January 2009 - 10:27 AM

Close Guantanamo Bay, check (with a caveat about what happens to the prisoners).End use of torture, checkCreate a task force to review detention policies and procedures, checkDelay the trial of Ali al-Marri.... whatever. Give him a trial, just make sure it is fair. If that's what the delay is for, check.C'mon Obama, do something horrible that I can complain about. This is just boring.
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#15 suitedinc

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Posted 22 January 2009 - 12:44 PM

1. Say "lobbyists will not be a part of my administration", then appoint a lobbyist to your cabinet2. Require access to all govt documents of former presidents and vice presidents, as long as the attorney general approves it. Let's see, the new AG is the same guy that pardoned Mark Rich and was a huge part of the Clinton administration. Yeah, that should work.

#16 vbnautilus

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Posted 22 January 2009 - 01:06 PM

View Postsuitedinc, on Thursday, January 22nd, 2009, 12:44 PM, said:

1. Say "lobbyists will not be a part of my administration", then appoint a lobbyist to your cabinet
You might want to peruse this executive order:http://www.whitehous...icsCommitments/Section 1. Ethics Pledge. Every appointee in every executive agency appointed on or after January 20, 2009, shall sign, and upon signing shall be contractually committed to, the following pledge upon becoming an appointee:"As a condition, and in consideration, of my employment in the United States Government in a position invested with the public trust, I commit myself to the following obligations, which I understand are binding on me and are enforceable under law:"1. Lobbyist Gift Ban. I will not accept gifts from registered lobbyists or lobbying organizations for the duration of my service as an appointee."2. Revolving Door Ban All Appointees Entering Government. I will not for a period of 2 years from the date of my appointment participate in any particular matter involving specific parties that is directly and substantially related to my former employer or former clients, including regulations and contracts.etc....

Quote

2. Require access to all govt documents of former presidents and vice presidents, as long as the attorney general approves it. Let's see, the new AG is the same guy that pardoned Mark Rich and was a huge part of the Clinton administration. Yeah, that should work.
This is adding a limit to the president's power to conceal information. How is that a bad thing? Under Bush's executive order 1322:• The Archivist must wait 12 years after the President has left office before any records are released.• The Archivist must wait 90 days between notifying a President or former President of intent to release and the actual release.• The records of a former President can only be released if the former Presidents concurs with the current President that they can be released.But now with Obama's EO:• Archivist will notify the current or former Presidents the intent to disclose records.• That President will have 30 days to object or claim executive privilege.• If executive privilege is invoked, the Archivist will not release said records until a determination by the Attorney General, Counsel to the current President, etc to determine if executive privilege applies.• If determined not privileged, the records will be released.

#17 Balloon guy

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Posted 22 January 2009 - 01:50 PM

View Posthblask, on Thursday, January 22nd, 2009, 10:27 AM, said:

Close Guantanamo Bay, check (with a caveat about what happens to the prisoners).End use of torture, checkCreate a task force to review detention policies and procedures, checkDelay the trial of Ali al-Marri.... whatever. Give him a trial, just make sure it is fair. If that's what the delay is for, check.C'mon Obama, do something horrible that I can complain about. This is just boring.
Well they can now no longer try him since they suspended all trials, so the only thing they can now try him on is the 93 bombings of the WTC. So he gets a pass for his part in 9-11?And what will they do with these people now? I guess put them in American federal prisons. Of course they will need to put them in protective lock down to keep the inmates from killing them, so that means they go from a sunny outside prison with volleyball and ping pong, to 1 hour a day outside their cell for rec time alone, and 23 hours a day inside a small cell. I guess once again the feel good liberal way isn't what they think it is.
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#18 hblask

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Posted 22 January 2009 - 01:56 PM

View PostBalloon guy, on Thursday, January 22nd, 2009, 3:50 PM, said:

Well they can now no longer try him since they suspended all trials, so the only thing they can now try him on is the 93 bombings of the WTC. So he gets a pass for his part in 9-11?And what will they do with these people now? I guess put them in American federal prisons. Of course they will need to put them in protective lock down to keep the inmates from killing them, so that means they go from a sunny outside prison with volleyball and ping pong, to 1 hour a day outside their cell for rec time alone, and 23 hours a day inside a small cell. I guess once again the feel good liberal way isn't what they think it is.
There is an excellent article in the WSJ about this today that I am too lazy to look up again, but basically it says that Obama is finding the problem is more complicated than his campaign promises made it sound, and that in order to shut it down in a year he'll have to make some very tough choices, including just locking some people up and throwing away the key.I say, OK, so we don't need to check if they were read their Miranda Rights and everything, but just do *something* with them. Holding them indefinitely with no rights is NOT an acceptable option.
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#19 Balloon guy

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Posted 22 January 2009 - 02:02 PM

View Posthblask, on Thursday, January 22nd, 2009, 1:56 PM, said:

There is an excellent article in the WSJ about this today that I am too lazy to look up again, but basically it says that Obama is finding the problem is more complicated than his campaign promises made it sound, and that in order to shut it down in a year he'll have to make some very tough choices, including just locking some people up and throwing away the key.I say, OK, so we don't need to check if they were read their Miranda Rights and everything, but just do *something* with them. Holding them indefinitely with no rights is NOT an acceptable option.
I agree that nothing is not an answer, but I was never under the impression that that was what the military was doing. Just slow about their acions.I guess we can send them all to Canada. Maybe they will learn some manners
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#20 hblask

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Posted 22 January 2009 - 02:06 PM

View PostBalloon guy, on Thursday, January 22nd, 2009, 4:02 PM, said:

I agree that nothing is not an answer, but I was never under the impression that that was what the military was doing. Just slow about their acions.
Seven years with NO movement is not just slow, thats a travesty. It's not like they have tens of thousands of people to process.... they could easily have gotten through everyone by now.
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