bahlgren342 0 Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Hey all, been reading here for a while and now deciding to mingle in the conversations here.I'm about 5th/18 in this tourney. 12 are paid. Not alot of info on Villian except he's Big stack and likes to 3 bet. No ones called his 3 bets since I've been at the table with him. Only showdown I've seen he called an all in with TT. My table image is solid (if he's watching) I've only shown down the best hands so far this tourney.PokerStars Game #24074827477: Tournament #135133093, $2.00+$0.20 Hold'em No Limit - Level XII (150/300) - 2009/01/19 19:26:34 ETTable '135133093 9' 9-max Seat #7 is the buttonSeat 1: jennex37 (9460 in chips) Seat 2: pinksky29 (6140 in chips) Seat 3: franckpop (6735 in chips) Seat 5: bahlgren342 (14845 in chips) Seat 7: Ozzi_MUFC (38678 in chips) Seat 8: Nessie11de (14205 in chips) Seat 9: dukumm (4960 in chips) jennex37: posts the ante 40pinksky29: posts the ante 40franckpop: posts the ante 40bahlgren342: posts the ante 40Ozzi_MUFC: posts the ante 40Nessie11de: posts the ante 40dukumm: posts the ante 40Nessie11de: posts small blind 150dukumm: posts big blind 300*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to bahlgren342 [Ks Qc]jennex37: folds pinksky29: folds franckpop: calls 300bahlgren342: raises 500 to 800Ozzi_MUFC: raises 2200 to 3000Push? Live to fight? Link to post Share on other sites
jkalib 0 Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2.00+$0.20 Tournament, 150/300 Blinds 40 Ante (7 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comUTG (t9460)MP1 (t6140)MP2 (t6735)Hero (CO) (t14845)Button (t38678)SB (t14205)BB (t4960)Hero's M: 20.34Preflop: Hero is CO with K, Q2 folds, MP2 calls t300, Hero raises to t800, Button raises to t3000Total pot: t2630 Link to post Share on other sites
jkalib 0 Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 I'd say fold. If he has a weak ace you are a dog. If he has a pair you are a dog. You have the second biggest stack at the table, why go to battle with the big stack with this hand? I'm not saying let him do this to you all night, but now isn't the time. Link to post Share on other sites
XXEddie 0 Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 I'd say fold. If he has a weak ace you are a dog. If he has a pair you are a dog. You have the second biggest stack at the table, why go to battle with the big stack with this hand? I'm not saying let him do this to you all night, but now isn't the time.This.Plus I am guessing this is one of the new 90-man SnGs? If so I limp this all day. The structure in these are sweet and I like to keep the pots small, wait till I make a hand, then watch people spew off to me. Link to post Share on other sites
bahlgren342 0 Posted January 20, 2009 Author Share Posted January 20, 2009 This.Plus I am guessing this is one of the new 90-man SnGs? If so I limp this all day. The structure in these are sweet and I like to keep the pots small, wait till I make a hand, then watch people spew off to me.This is precisely what I've been doing. I played 3 in the past 2 days. (I would play more but I do alot of other things besides poker). I got 2nd, 5th and busted on a cooler. I played small pots and out played post flop. The begining-middle structures are awesome. But when it gets real late/bubble they seem to raise a little drastically. Link to post Share on other sites
BeaverStyle 1 Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Limp pf or raise more, to about 1200. Easy fold to the 3-bet. Link to post Share on other sites
kkot 0 Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 What do we think his range is here for 3betting?Of that range, what calls a shove?I think this might be closer than you guys are making it out to be. I'm kind of curious. Link to post Share on other sites
bahlgren342 0 Posted January 20, 2009 Author Share Posted January 20, 2009 What do we think his range is here for 3betting?Of that range, what calls a shove?I think this might be closer than you guys are making it out to be. I'm kind of curious.At this point it was unknown. Later on I found it to be a solid range depending on the player. I saw him do it with AK, AA, TT, later in the tournaments, but those were the only ones ended up being called by an opponent later on. He did 3-bet rather often so he couldn't have had the best hands everytime! Link to post Share on other sites
I_fold08 1 Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Limp pf or raise more, to about 1200. Easy fold to the 3-bet.the raise is fine, but shoving 50 bb's with KQ is just a bad play imo, when the best u can hope for is JJ or AJ. Link to post Share on other sites
Merby 3 Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Limp pf or raise more, to about 1200. Easy fold to the 3-bet.No, I like the OP's PFR bet-sizing. Raising more is just hemorrhaging chips. Fold to the 3-bet. Link to post Share on other sites
SlackerInc 0 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 At this point it was unknown. Later on I found it to be a solid range depending on the player. I saw him do it with AK, AA, TT, later in the tournaments, but those were the only ones ended up being called by an opponent later on. He did 3-bet rather often so he couldn't have had the best hands everytime!We've debated this extensively before (though the context was somewhat different), but shoving with KQo when you're not desperate just doesn't make sense to me. It's just not a very strong hand--and it's easily dominated by two common high card hands: AK and AQ. If you're up against a pair, you'll be flipping as long as the pair is not QQ+. Link to post Share on other sites
MovingIn 0 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Given stacks, shoving is a bit drastic with KQo, even if villain is loosely 3betting pre. Any Ace or pair has us beat before the flop. I'd shove him back with AT or a small pair before I'd 4bet him with KQ... not that I'd necessarily play back at him here.As for the initial raise size, it's fine if you're building a pot for value. It's not if you're trying to punish the limper and blinds or dissuade callers behind, because it's too easy a call given the pot size. Link to post Share on other sites
bahlgren342 0 Posted January 21, 2009 Author Share Posted January 21, 2009 Given stacks, shoving is a bit drastic with KQo, even if villain is loosely 3betting pre. Any Ace or pair has us beat before the flop. I'd shove him back with AT or a small pair before I'd 4bet him with KQ... not that I'd necessarily play back at him here.As for the 3bet size, it's fine if you're building a pot for value. It's not if you're trying to punish the limper and blinds or dissuade callers behind, because it's too easy a call given the pot size.I had a sense I was a better player than him so I wanted him in my pots to play him post flop. Which I did. I ended up taking about half his stack later. Which then I lost most to someone at the final table. For the situation, I did fold after some small thought. I realized I didn't have enough information on him yet to replay back. After seeing him showdown AK, TT, AA later after 3 betting, I am glad I didn't play back. Link to post Share on other sites
BeaverStyle 1 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 No, I like the OP's PFR bet-sizing. Raising more is just hemorrhaging chips. Fold to the 3-bet.Really? You usually raise 2.66x when there's a limper in front? That's just bloating the pot and not defining your hand or not taking control of the pot imo. All I'm saying is that if we DO raise w/ KQo here, 800 is hardly enough. Hands like Ax and suited connectors will call your 500 chip raise all day and twice on sunday because of the odds you're giving. Knowing there is an EP limper might make other players behind you inclined to call lighter, assuming the pot will get bigger when he closes the action. Link to post Share on other sites
TrueAce13 18 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Yeah....this seems to be an easy fold. What are you beating here? Link to post Share on other sites
kkot 0 Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 Really? You usually raise 2.66x when there's a limper in front? That's just bloating the pot and not defining your hand or not taking control of the pot imo. All I'm saying is that if we DO raise w/ KQo here, 800 is hardly enough. Hands like Ax and suited connectors will call your 500 chip raise all day and twice on sunday because of the odds you're giving. Knowing there is an EP limper might make other players behind you inclined to call lighter, assuming the pot will get bigger when he closes the action.Can someone explain this whole idea to me.I can see trying to define Villains hand, but why exactly are we trying to define ours? Link to post Share on other sites
bahlgren342 0 Posted January 25, 2009 Author Share Posted January 25, 2009 Everyone plays differently. Small 2-3bb raises suit me better than 4-5 bb raises, but I'll usually re-raise AA-KK in tournament play. I like playing smaller pots and playing post-flop poker. I'll make the same raises with any hand. Not sure why I made it 2.66x that time, must've screwed up my math lol. Also, most limpers were folding to any raise at this table except for the Villian in this hand. Probably should have stated that before the disagreements came about. Link to post Share on other sites
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